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Okay, Why Arizona?

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red clay View Drop Down
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Okay, Why Arizona?
    Posted: 06-Oct-2016 at 11:49
I don't believe the artifacts are on public display, however since Wolters investigation they might be.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2016 at 10:02
I live an hour east of Tucson so when I have time I'll read all of these posts. Are these artifacts on display in Tucson? Seems out of the way to find European artifacts in our Southwest from 800 AD, but I'm open. Sara Winmemuca in History of the Paiutes talks about a race of white people her ancestors encountered many generations ago. Spanish or pre columbian, who knows????
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2016 at 00:14
someone deleted my post?

It  seems Calalus is combination of Hebrew word for "wasteland" and California (which Arizona was once part of).

repost of missing post:

Haven't been able to research this properly yet, but had a quick re-/read of the wikipedia page on Tucson artefacts and from the info there it seems fairly/pretty likely to me that they were made by the young man/boy Odohui mentioned at the end (which also may agree with the comment that made by a mentally incompetent person).
(I am not debunking them, any one that knows me knows how i investigate things pretty openly and try to objectively see/find the truth. I like investigaing mysteries esp ones orthodox seem to be unfairly/suspiciously against.)
The date is actually 780/790/800/Charlemagne to 900/Alfred not just 800.
The Toltec bit is interesting.
I've no idea yet where Calalus was got from ("wasteland"? California? Aztlan? Coelus/Caelus? Halal? Carib? Canaan? Alalu(s)? Calaus? Claus? Calculus? Chalcis? Chalyb? chalc? halleluyah? Kala?); but at least now i know where Superman came from (joke).
The nearby site Picture Rocks sounds more interesting to find out more about.
Tucson sounds like Tuscan but i assume not related (i haven't checked where Tucson name came from).

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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2016 at 19:13

Arizona was certainly not off limits.

The socalled Ruskamp signs  (ancient Chinese signs )may have been brought up before ( by Red Clay?). Anyway, they are to be  found in Arizona ( and in New Mexico and California).  

Its another topic of course . The best info comes from Ruskamp' s own papers ( to be found on the net) but for a first read this link will do:




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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2016 at 13:11
The trick is, they aren't a hoax. Many debunkers ignore the fact that the items were excavated by professionals from the Uni of Arizona and other science based folks.
Which is probably why they have been ignored. To address it would be "uncomfortable".
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Arthur-Robin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-May-2016 at 06:59

quote "The CoL was once a symbol of Papal authority, used in the early church"
(and quote "
Two possible reasons for the artifacts. Christians trying to relate to natives.")

Hope it is not another papal fake/fraud. The papal authority is similar to some other things in my ebook http://www.allempires.com/forum/ebook_view.asp?BookID=104&ChapterID=1565 . Must check who was the pope/emperor in 800? (Leo 3, Charlemagne, Irene or Nicephorus 1, a Spanish one?).

quote "There are some who connect the Romans use of Lead to cook with,to the Fall of the Empire.
Negative effects of even small amounts of Lead in food were, reduced learning abilities, damage to the parts of the brain that control urges, compulsions.  In extreme cases, and especially where the mother was also consumming containated food, they were producing "Idiots".  This was only the elite who would have been effected.  The common folk couldn't afford Lead pots, so they weren't effected as much, if at all.
{It's been suggested that both Nero and Caligula were the products of Lead contamination in their food.}"

In present times its the other way around with all the less fortinate people being poisoned by bpa/bishphenol in linnings etc, & lead in water sitting in tap fittings (i was).

Sorry if they are slightly off-topic. I can't offer any much of value yet without knowing more, and unless research/study.
Initial thoughts included Los Lunas Decalogue stone. Area 51. Othere (Alfred the Great). Fomenko. Vikings in Mexican pictures (SC Compton 'Exodus Lost').


"25000"yrs humanfootprintsMexico?,
19000yo flintknife Virginia from france, monteVerde15kya,
"11xxx"bc 4calendars coincide
"9000/8000"yrs atlantis
2250bc Chinese
"1739-1728/1701-1690" Hesperus / 1700bc Woden-lithi;
[1400s bc Atlantis]
"1040-999" Votan / 1000/900bc solomon,
jehu, Homer 900/ca800bc,
(607bc Necho ~) "600bc Nephi"
hecataeus (500), Hellanicus ca470bc, herodotus(450/ca440bc),
"58/55 bc Nephite Hagoth"
151ad Ptolemy map,
before500ce/"500"/5thcent ad Chinese/HuiShen (fusang) ; (Barinthus)
(484-577 Brendan(7yrs, 40days, 12isls))
(15-yrs-after-Brendan Maeldune(3yrs,33isls))
"800 ad Tucson artefacts"
(870 Gunnbjorn)
(871-901 Othere)
 982 Eric Thorvaldson the Red
1003 Leif Ericson
1007 Thorvald Ericson
1010/1016 Thorfinn Karlseffni
1121 Eric Gnupson "=Quetzalcoatl"
1171 Madoc
{1310/1311ad : mandingo
1311ad Abu-Bakari II fleet of Mali?}
1355 Paul Knutson
1382 Kensington runic
1395 Henry Sinclair / Zeno, 1421 Chinese ZhengHe
1462:portuguese
1473/6 {didrikPining, hanspothorst, cortreal, scolvus, alvaroMartins}
1477 Cortereal
1480 Túpac Inca Yupanqui (9mo,2isls)?
1481 Bristol
, benicasa(1482), 1492 Columbus
Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494
1497 Cabot
1497-1503 Vespucci
(the so-called Vinland Map of the 15th century
Map of Cantino dated of 1502, piri reis(1511),
Hadji Ahmed Portolan Map 1519,
1519 Cortez
1528 Pizarro
1534 French Cartier, ortelius/typusorbisterrarum(1592), 1584-1618 / 1615 Sir Walter Raleigh, buache(1737),
1947/1969/1970 Heyerdahl.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 17-May-2016 at 07:08
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  Quote Mhenkel66 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-May-2016 at 20:46
Two possible reasons for the artifacts. Christians trying to relate to natives. The other the is the French fighting with Mexicans. The Lorraine cross simple was used by others than just the temple knights. Just like the swastika. Ruins in Crete from 2000 years ago has same symbol. Muslims ran the Christians out of country, so they came to America's. The so called dinosaur was likely a desert reptile drawing. 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2013 at 00:21
I need full text on one of them.The one with text with uprise arrow sign.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Sep-2013 at 16:45

I wish Wolter would do more on the Megalithic sites in the Eastern US.  He investigated Mystery Hill, but that was it.  There are hundreds of other sites from Maine to Florida.  Burnt Hill, in Western Mass., is a much better example than Mystery Hill.  It was never occupied and is pretty much as found at time of contact.  It's isolated and a heck of a climb to get to.  I made the climb once, but pooped out before I reached the summit.  However, the entire hill has evidence of extreme antiquity.  But it's just one of many.

                              http://www.neara.org/
 
The above is a link to the New England Antiquity Research Association
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Sep-2013 at 16:15
"Thomas Bent’s 1964 book on the crosses being published for the first time that is an invaluable primary resource that removes all doubt"


from an email I received from a very close source to this issue. I've also been told that the research from the "America unearthed" series is moving forward and will be published. I think they are waiting for ALL of the engineering to be turned in. this includes independent testing for backup.

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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2013 at 12:59
for your reading enjoyment -- the biography of Byron Cummings (archaeologist of Arizona). he had authenticated the "crosses" along with a host of other onsite VIP's

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0816524777/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A21I6SH8GPCODY
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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2013 at 13:30
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  Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2013 at 13:06
Originally posted by red clay

The Tucson Artifacts are an assembly of 32 lead artifacts.  They are also called the silver belle rd. artifacts.  They consist mainly of inscribed crosses.  The rub is, the inscriptions are Latin and Paleo Hebrew and have a date on them that reads 800 AD.
 
Okay, easy one, they are a hoax, right.  Ehhhh, I'm not so sure.  Not that I suscribe to Scott Wolter's ideas on all of the things he investigates, but in this case I think I have to agree with him.  The things were retrieved from a 6.5 ft. deep layer of desert caliche.  In some cases they had to use a jackhammer to get down to the artifact layer.  Most of this activity was observed by professors and professional archaeologists, some of whom actually participated in the diggs.  In S.NJ we have a similar aggregate formation.  Having worked in Landscape Const. for 40 years, I have more than a casual exp[erience with it.  It's usually a dark pink and is like cement.   
The formation process for a layer 6 ft deep is approx. 800 to 1,000 years.  There isn't anyway you could excavate this stuff, plant artifacts, then rebury them and have it look and behave as caliche.
 
This is a link to a site   http://www.mysteriousarizona.com/index.html
 
It covers this and a few other "Mysteries" of Arizona.  This isn't the only instance of anomalous artifacts found in Arizona or archaeo. sites of anomalous age. 
 
For this thread, skip all the alternative option crap.  Treat all of these as if they were iron clad proved genuine. 
The only question remaining is,     Why Arizona? 
 
 


In that case, the most reasonable response is "Why not?" Was Arizona off limits?

Arizona is close to South America and it's Indan/Mezo cultures, but more importantly it is close to ocean access via the gulf.  Where would we normally expect to find artifacts from elsewhere?  Wyoming orsome other landlocked region?

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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2013 at 12:49
the brick work in Mexico has to be looked at now --- as far as i'm concerned, money needs to be put into this. its time has come. i really do hope the powers to be don't do a "there's nothing here" thing. its really time the Smithsonian stepped in. Scott Wolter has exposed way to much for it to be ignored.
 
I'm really waiting for all of the published reports that i'm sure will be forecoming under "peer-review". I would think that he has lined up or is lining up people who want to be on the cutting edge of this.
 
i would like to see all the artifacts with the languages on it pulbished with pictures and the translations in a booklet form --- i think that would be incredible
 
 
edit -- i was going to add that Chris Hardaker time is here also. i would have thought that he would have been jumping up and down so hard he would hurt himself --- Smile


Edited by Explorer - 05-Mar-2013 at 12:54
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2013 at 11:08
Lead would be too soft to use as weapons.  It will not hold an edge.
 
The large cross actually weighs 63 lbs.  The lead ore came from a mine less than 5 miles away.  Wolter was at the site.  However the mine is located within the bounds of a State Park, and with a Ranger looking over his shoulder he didn't have much time to look around.
 
If it were me looking, I'd draw a circle giving about a mile outside of the mine and encompassing the site where the items were found.  Inside that circle somewhere, is the smelting site.  But locating it will be a problem as the depth of the other artifacts show.
 
I agree that this isn't 10 or 20 folks who just happened to get blown off course in a storm.  One of the inscriptions refers to 3 thousand?   This had to be a colony.  The discovery of Roman Brickwork on one of the pyramids in Mexico is no longer mysterious.
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2013 at 12:17
the people who did this had to be in the "hundreds" -- i don't think this was pulled off by a group of 10 or 20 ??????
 
Centrix posted about travel routes --- think to the time and dangers of this -- WOW


Edited by Explorer - 02-Mar-2013 at 12:19
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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2013 at 11:50
agree completely --- the idea of smelting lead crosses with inscriptions was a scientific and religious wonder of european thought and not native american ---
 
watched the show again last night and tried to watch real close when they showed the lettering -- the edges were all very sharp and well made --- makes we wonder what kind of tools they had to make the letters especially the curves in the numeral "C" for 100 and the curve in the "D" for 500. also, some of the "lettering" seemed to me to be just "scraped" into the metal like an "etch-a-sketch"
 
advanced for the time period in roman empire -- no --- advanced for the america's -- yes, unless they were from europe --- this confirms beyond all doubt about the idea of "diffusion and migration". this argument is now front and center and not the idea of every civilization developing on its own.
 
and correct if wrong (of course) but the lead would have been used for tools, weapons, etc etc -- but they made crosses with it --- this tells me they had a lot of lead to spare -- 35 lb lead crosses don't help much when your fighting for your life -- swords and arrowheads do
 
which brings severalthought to mind
1) the idea of metal swords in the fighting would have been a small shock to the "enemy" --
2) there has to be way more then meets the eye -- like -- who was packing the cross -- that's 35 lbs of rather awkward shaped lead -- instead of a bar, etc. where they moving it to someplace else -- did they smelter on the spot (i doubt if they hauled the raw material even 5 miles) or was there more wood (charcoal) where the crosses were found
3) there has to be "charcoal" fire places somewhere around there -- probabilily buried very deep -- none of this is "surface" findings
 
questions questions questions ??????????? Geek (thinking cap)
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2013 at 10:43
as far as the lead cross -- this is smelted metal and the lettering, runes, etc all had to be made when the metal was red hot --- and then cooled --- this is technology that is way passed the native americans and a cross to boot --- the only other civilization that would come even close to this would be the spanish and why would they put AD800 in the cross -- they were after "gold" and not "lead"
 


Amerinds had metalurgy.  They just didn't use it as much as other cultures.
 
Smelting lead with the grade ore they had or have at the Yuma mine, wasn't hard to accomplish.
 
The lettering and runes would have been done after the lead had cooled.  Would be a hell of a lot safer and easier to do after, using a sharpened inscribing tool heated up.  Remember, these were Romans, they knew how to handle lead.  At one time in the Roman Empire, lead was nearly as valuable as gold.  The elite used it for their cooking pots.  The wealthy had their dead burried in Lead coffins.  [And their resulting offspring went around fitting all of the round holes with square pegs.]Big smile
 
There are some who connect the Romans use of Lead to cook with,to the Fall of the Empire.
Negative effects of even small amounts of Lead in food were, reduced learning abilities, damage to the parts of the brain that control urges, compulsions.  In extreme cases, and especially where the mother was also consumming containated food, they were producing "Idiots".  This was only the elite who would have been effected.  The common folk couldn't afford Lead pots, so they weren't effected as much, if at all.
{It's been suggested that both Nero and Caligula were the products of Lead contamination in their food.} 
 
  
 
 


Edited by red clay - 02-Mar-2013 at 11:01
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2013 at 21:05
Originally posted by Explorer

"GPR, use of newly available Sat. and computer tech. to survey the...."
 
oh, if i would just win the lottery -- Tongue
 
 
You and me both.   I have a small GPR unit available to me on a limited basis, but I don't think I could talk them in to letting me take it out there.  A rig like that, with laptop and sftwr can run around 35,000. 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Explorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2013 at 16:36
me -- i'm sipping at 1:30 califonia time --- Glenlivet 
 
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