Iranian obsession with Nordic features

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising Maybe these people who you are saying have no pride in their country, are feeling isolated and discriminated against within their own country, while at the same time showing pride in their own ethnic background as a part of that country.

Well, the problem is they're not taking pride of themselves as citizens of "their" country. They want to be independent, like the Arabs in the south who want to establish an Arab independent state. Also, they're being discriminated against probably because they're regarded as aliens in Iran or because they're rebelious.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising Considering what you're saying about Iranic ethnic group, which means that they are ethnically diverse too, and other ethnic groups, being ethnically diverse on its own is unlikely to be what is causing problems.

The Iranians maybe ethnically diverse but are also racially united to some degree. They're not causing the real trouble. The non-Iranic ethnic groups are the real threat.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising Let me ask you this, Shamshir, when those from any of the groups you're suggesting are problematic to Iran, do something notable and good, do you see it as something which makes you proud to be Iranian over?

First, I'm not an Iranian citizen. Second, your question is difficult. 
If any non-Iranian does a good thing to Iran then he/she would undoubtly gain my respect. But to be honest with you Alani, he/she would still be regarded as foreigner even if he/she happens to be living in Iran as a citizen.
Others might disagree with me and even accuse me of being immoral. But I have my own reasons to be a proud Iranian. Again, I'm not a supremacist.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri If Iranian culture had its roots in Africa, SOME Iranians would have an obsession with Black African features! You should blame the ancient Iranian culture, not those Iranians who love to relate themselves to their ancestors.

Originally posted by Shamshir Well, the problem is they're not taking pride of themselves as citizens of "their" country. They want to be independent, like the Arabs in the south who want to establish an Arab independent state. Also, they're being discriminated against probably because they're regarded as aliens in Iran or because they're rebelious.

On the contrary, Shamshir, it would seem that they take pride of themselves in the country geographically speaking, albeit that piece that they’re after being independent.  This is always such a difficult affair, Shamshir, for you either allow them their right to have their say in their future, or infringe their human rights. There’s one thing for sure, them being treated like aliens in what you regard as their own country, instead of simply being seen as being rebellious, will reassure them that if they’re being treated like they don’t belong to Iran, then the land they are occupying has no place being Iranian either.

Originally posted by Shamshir The Iranians maybe ethnically diverse but are also racially united to some degree. They're not causing the real trouble. The non-Iranic ethnic groups are the real threat.

Regardless of who is doing what to who, this sounds like cultural differences over DNA, rather than the other way around.

Originally posted by Shamshir First, I'm not an Iranian citizen. Second, your question is difficult.  If any non-Iranian does a good thing to Iran then he/she would undoubtly gain my respect. But to be honest with you Alani, he/she would still be regarded as foreigner even if he/she happens to be living in Iran as a citizen.  Others might disagree with me and even accuse me of being immoral. But I have my own reasons to be a proud Iranian. Again, I'm not a supremacist.

I’ve heard of similar things elsewhere, and what started the trouble is the lack of respect visibly being shown in a way that they can say that they believe that they are being shown equality.  It is very difficult however to measure if such a situation can be retrieve after it gets to a certain position as you’ve talked about.

Originally posted by Shamshir I agree. However, the native inhabitants of the Iranian plateau were assimilated rather quickly to the point where they have become indistinguishable from the Iranians. But when racial mixing happens on a massive scale with so many races involved just as in post-Islamic Iran then we have serious problem.

Now that depends if that how you want to see it, Shamshir, you could equally exchange the last word of that statement with the word opportunities, and could be equally correct.

Originally posted by Shamshir Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri ..., but another thing is that some people in Iran see more cultural relations between themselves and Europans and for this reason, they try to relate themselves to them. Why am I not surprised that this isn't happening the other way around?!

Originally posted by balochii if iranians are related to germans, how come their genetics are so different? Genetically Iranians are a people of west asia, with very limited genetic influence from outside

^ well the light features found among Pamiri, Kalash, Nuristani, Tajiks, Pashtuns could indeed be related to the indo europeans, because these populations show  the north east European genetic component at anywhere from 15-30% range, Pamiri Tajiks for example have higher rate of blondism and blue eyes than anyone in the region and they show the European component in them at almost 30%, but present day Iran being such a big land, doesn't show much of this genetic component, at the most they will have 5-10%. Iranians are far more mixed with other middle easterners than any of the other populations I mentioned

The aryans/indo iranians probably took the route of present day Tajikistan/Afghanistan, they probably settled there too. Once they got mixed, they probably went to places like Iran and india


Edited by balochii - 12-Feb-2013 at 11:30

Again, no one is denying the fact that there has been interaction between some Iranic groups and people surrounding them but that does not make the Iranics an extension of those people. There has also been longer and more continuous connection between Iranic groups and Arabs or Turks but, just go and tell any Iranic group that they are Arabs or Turks and see what kind of reaction you'll receive. Forget Iranics/Iranians, go to Scandinavia, pick any country and tell them they are some Brits who want to be something else or convince Sàmi People as some confused Germans.

Are we to believe that all the people, ethnicities and nations who came in contact with us have existed since the dawn of time and we Iranian people are just a mixture of them? How are we to imagin the early human migrations? Those people had wings and didn't pass through middle east by foot and none setteled in between! They just landed in Northern Europe and China. A book is not as pure as a page you riped from it? 

Cyrus,

I like reading your posts and although my health does not permit me to participate more actively I've always learned a lot from you and enjoy reading the topics you pick. Yes, Iranic people are diverse with rich/proud history. Surely we can talk about our past relatives and common cultural/historical heritage. Unfortunately you can not do that without getting the ethnic or self centric view and counter-reaction of the Northern Europeans. You're bound to be marked as a not "wanna be" HOT, as if our world circles around their acceptance. That is what I want to avoid Cyrus and I find it very degenerating and insulting toward Iranians. Strange enough some Africans see middle easterners as some watered-down blacks. What are we to conclude from such color-oriented views?

You can also see this mentioned in different post under this very topic. They even see Eastern Europeans as lightly mixed population. They are IT and the rest of the world is a mixture of this and that + some few IT if you get lucky. So, I don't see why you even want to make that connection. I personally find Turks and Germans more related than any Iranians, have you ever been in Turkish neighborhoods in some parts of Germany? My son and my grandfather are related but my son can't even pronounce my grandfather's name.

Originally posted by Yekta Iranians do not have that many enemies and I can compare some particular separatist groups with a small blow-fish, more than what they appear to be. I would say that our problem is a incompatible government.

What about the Turks, the Arabs, the Russians and the West? History has shown us that those can pose a serious threat to Iran. History has also shown us that we shouldn't be underestimating the power of the seperatist groups in Iran. Indeed, we do have many problems among which is the IR that is a result of both religious zeal and Western Imperialism.