Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

The most fierce tribe in N. America
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
edgewaters View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Snake in the Grass-Banned

Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The most fierce tribe in N. America
    Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 17:29
I can't go with the Aztecs or the Maya; the Aztecs fell swiftly to very early European firepower and machinations, where more northerly tribes easily resisted initial attacks, some lasting a century or more in constant warfare with Europeans.

I can't go with any of the Plains tribes. They had a brief moment where they were "ferocious" because of a lucky combination of newer firearms, horses, and a geography suited to those things, but it was a brief period.

My vote goes with the Iroquois - they were dominating their neighbours and building an empire at the time the Europeans showed up, and not only did they survive that arrival, they turned it to their advantage and accelerated their conquests. They participated in numerous wars with European powers, and in the end were never really conquered but torn apart by internal disagreements over which power to support. By far this group was present on more of the great battlefields of North American history and made a much greater impact in war, across the span of centuries, than any other single native entity.
Back to Top
Mayra View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 15-Jan-2007
Location: Nigeria/Brasil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 29 		  Quote Mayra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-May-2009 at 22:15
I missed this thread. here is a link for blackfeet.
 
It sounds like they controlled a very wide area and talks about how they kept their southern neighbours under control also. I had a friend who was Blackfeet, and actively involved in the reservation, traditions etc. He told me that the people used to smear their body in excrement, dangle cut off ears on necklaces, basic scare tactics. It's hard to say looking back who was most fierce, but this guy was an ex Ranger and pretty scary. He'd killed a lot of people in covert operations and seemed pretty suited to it...
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
" I have no particular talent. I am merely inquisitive". Albert Einstein
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 04:04
Originally posted by edgewaters

I can't go with the Aztecs or the Maya; the Aztecs fell swiftly to very early European firepower and machinations, where more northerly tribes easily resisted initial attacks, some lasting a century or more in constant warfare with Europeans.
 
There is a mistake, here. The Aztecs didn't surrender but were crashed in a major disaster that only can be compare to the bombings of Germany or the Nukes in Japan. The Aztecs simply didn't have more resources to resist, and died fighting against superior forces of Spaniards and every single native enemies they had.
 
 
Back to Top
edgewaters View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Snake in the Grass-Banned

Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 07:44

I didn't say they surrendered. I just said they fell swiftly.

The Blackfoot were a fierce group, but weren't able to build an empire and compete as an equal with colonial powers at any point - the Iroqouis did this from the time of contact until just before the American Revolution (which tore them apart, internally).



Edited by edgewaters - 26-May-2009 at 07:44
Back to Top
The Canadian Guy View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar
The Native Canuck

Joined: 24-Feb-2005
Location: IDK Im lost!
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 891 		  Quote The Canadian Guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 07:44
Originally posted by Anishnabe

The answer to this question is an easy one. the most fierce tribe in
N.america was the not the lakota(dakota), the huron or the mighty six nations (Mohawk, seneca,onondaga,onieda,cayuga, tuscarora), but the only tribe to beat them all.  Although most of the battles the anishnabe fought in were from a defensive standpoint they were able to push the six nations land out of central and southern Ontario to were they are today in upstate new york. As well as push the lakota out of the some parts of minnesota. the ojibway didnt go looking for trouble but if other tribes started to encroch on there lands they were more then able to push them all back. 
  So, your Anish as well eh? It is good to find other Anish in the internet community. I was born in Garden River. We Ojibwa were considered a superpower above Mexico by the whites at somepoint in time. 
 
BTW: for those who consider the Blackfoot nation as Blackfeet, plz don't state them as Blackfeet, that is a bit racist and they find that insulting. Blackfoot is that nations name. Just for further consideration. I will get the staff on any member for racisim.Wink


Edited by The Canadian Guy - 26-May-2009 at 07:48
Hate and anger is the fuel of war, while religion and politics is the foundation of it.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 13:24
Originally posted by edgewaters

I didn't say they surrendered. I just said they fell swiftly.

As I said. Your argument is false. Don't match historical events.
Back to Top
Mayra View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 15-Jan-2007
Location: Nigeria/Brasil
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 29 		  Quote Mayra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2009 at 14:44
Originally posted by The Canadian Guy

Originally posted by Anishnabe

The answer to this question is an easy one. the most fierce tribe in
N.america was the not the lakota(dakota), the huron or the mighty six nations (Mohawk, seneca,onondaga,onieda,cayuga, tuscarora), but the only tribe to beat them all.  Although most of the battles the anishnabe fought in were from a defensive standpoint they were able to push the six nations land out of central and southern Ontario to were they are today in upstate new york. As well as push the lakota out of the some parts of minnesota. the ojibway didnt go looking for trouble but if other tribes started to encroch on there lands they were more then able to push them all back. 
  So, your Anish as well eh? It is good to find other Anish in the internet community. I was born in Garden River. We Ojibwa were considered a superpower above Mexico by the whites at somepoint in time. 
 
BTW: for those who consider the Blackfoot nation as Blackfeet, plz don't state them as Blackfeet, that is a bit racist and they find that insulting. Blackfoot is that nations name. Just for further consideration. I will get the staff on any member for racisim.Wink
Oh for God's sake. Now we are going to quibble over the singular or plural of "foot" being racist??? I give up. The link I pasted here says FEET, FEET, it is for geneaology. Go report them then.
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
" I have no particular talent. I am merely inquisitive". Albert Einstein
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 04-May-2007
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 486 		  Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2009 at 01:27

One group of Native Americans that also showed a good fighting ability were the Susquehannoks (also refered to as Minkess, Conestoga or Seruskwack). This people who were not especially many were among other things the protectors of the Swedish enterprise New Sweden.

They came to dominate the neighbouring Lenapes and dictate the terms of the fur trade between the Swedish colonists and the inland. They were in conflict with the Iroquois and they also fought the English. On top of that they also conflicted with the Dutch at some occassion.

At some points they really got the mighty Iroqoois confederacy on it´s knees but their resources weren´t enough for a final victory.

The Susquehannoks lent some help from Swedish soldiers (of whom some where intermarried among them) to fortify their city and they even used cannons in their defence.

As the time went by their low numbers and the multitude of their enemies finally weakend them and in the end they split up and some were assimilated in other tribes, some banded up with other groups and went westward, where they continued fighting the British and others, while some stayed in the vicinity of their old homeland. The last of the latter group (just about 20 persons), except two, were murdered by militiamen (the Paxton boys) in 1763.

 
It is interesting to notice that the only remnant we have of the language of the Susquehannoks is a vocabulary of about 100 words (Vocabula Mahakuassica) compiled by the Swedish Lutheran priest Johan Campanius in the 17th century.
 
See also this tread:
 
 
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 16-Jun-2009 at 02:02
Back to Top
Akolouthos View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 24-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2091 		  Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2009 at 01:41
Originally posted by The Canadian Guy

BTW: for those who consider the Blackfoot nation as Blackfeet, plz don't state them as Blackfeet, that is a bit racist and they find that insulting. Blackfoot is that nations name. Just for further consideration. I will get the staff on any member for racisim.Wink


I will thank you not to threaten fellow members with disciplinary action that you do not have the authority to enact, in jest or otherwise. If you have a concern, please review the CoC and pursue the normal channels.

-Akolouthos
Back to Top
lirelou View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 528 		  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2009 at 02:47
Penguin, face it! The Aztec's surrendered! When you quit fighting, and accept the invader;s terms, it's called surrender. When your daughter adopts the Spanish religion, and is baptized Susana, and becomes the mistress of your conqueror (Cortes), that is defeat! The fact that there are still Mexica living in what was Tenochtitlan is proof that they were intelligent enough to know that they were beaten. 
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2009 at 17:10
Originally posted by lirelou

Penguin, face it! The Aztec's surrendered! When you quit fighting, and accept the invader;s terms, it's called surrender.
 
They were exterminated in the siege of Tenochtitlan. I wonder how many real Aztecs survived, but at least weren't many warriors left. And, of course, Germans also surrender in WW II when they didn't have more people to be send to the war.
 
Originally posted by lirelou

When your daughter adopts the Spanish religion, and is baptized Susana, and becomes the mistress of your conqueror (Cortes), that is defeat! The fact that there are still Mexica living in what was Tenochtitlan is proof that they were intelligent enough to know that they were beaten. 
 
It was not called Susana but Doña Marina, and she addopted Spanish ways simply because they treat her better than Mayans! She was sold into slavery by her own mother. It those antecedents, nobody would call "Malinche" a "traitor".
 
But that has nothing to do with the topic. Europeans (all of them) simply robbed the Americas from the Amerindians. That the way we should call all those adventurers, from Columbus and everybody else. When we finally do so, we will see the "discovery" of the Americas in the real perspective.
 
 
Back to Top
lirelou View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 528 		  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2009 at 18:33
Pinguino, you've got the wrong mistress. Dona Marina, aka la Malinche, was not Moctezuma's daughter. Notice that two of his mistresses were Moctezuma II's daughters.

From:  http://www.answers.com/topic/hern-n-cort-s

Natural children of Hernán Cortés:

  • don Martín Cortés, son of doña Marina (La Malinche), called the First Mestizo; about him was written The New World of Martín Cortés; married doña Bernaldina de Porras and had two children:
    • doña Ana Cortés
    • don Fernando Cortés, Principal Judge of Veracruz. Descendants of this line are alive today in Mexico.
  • Martín - the legitimate son of Cortés and Catalina Juárez Marcaida
  • don Luis, son of doña Antonia Hermosillo
  • doña Catalina Pizarro, daughter of his relative doña Leonor Pizarro
  • doña Leonor, daughter of doña Isabel de Moctezuma, the oldest legitimate daughter of Moctezuma II Xocoyotzin
  • doña María Cortés de Moctezuma, married to don Juan de Tolosa, a miner, daughter of Mexica (Aztec) princess Tecuichpotzin Xocoyotzin, born in Tenochtitlan on July 11, 1510 and died on July 9, 1550, daughter of Moctezuma II Xocoyotzin and wife doña María Miahuaxuchitl
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
Back to Top
lirelou View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 528 		  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2009 at 18:37
This book on the Commanche, by a Finnlander no less, has received very good reviews. I have not read it yet, but it is on the way.

http://www.amazon.com/Comanche-Empire-Lamar-Western-History/dp/0300151179/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245173720&sr=1-1



Edited by lirelou - 16-Jun-2009 at 18:37
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
Back to Top
tommy View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 13-Sep-2005
Location: Hong Kong
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 545 		  Quote tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 22:44
In my opinion, those tribes in the steppe , as well as eastern woodland,were more fierce, but those in the  pacific coast were not strong, they did not beat the white hard
leung
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 17:15
Very interesting question. One can in a general sense, make a choice on any number of qualifiers to include time/era and location; as they might be interrelated to euro expansion into the new world.
 
Personally, if i were to recommend any for special ferocity it would have to be as that ferocity was viewed by the aforementioned and the tribes that were in recurring conflict with others at specific time periods.
 
Hence i list five for contemplation:
 
a. Apache
b. Comanche and their Kiowa allies
c. Blackfoot
d. Seminole
e. Huron
 
 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 16:34
Originally posted by eaglecap

Was it the Apache, Salish, Blackfeet, coastal Tribes, Iriquois, Huron, Siox, Chumash, Aztec. Who????



apache and the yaquis were the most fear warriors
Back to Top
lirelou View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 528 		  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 19:31
badazz, in re: "apache and the yaquis were the most fear warriors"

Not according to "Comanche Empire". Well, it hardly 'rates' who was the most feared. But it does make plain that the Comanches pushed the Apache down to where the U.S. found them after the Comancheria collapsed. It also brings out an interesting point. Not all 'Comanche' were genetically 'Comanche'. Outsiders could become 'comanche' through long association with them, and by their performance in war and raiding. His book contains a sketch of a certain Jesus Hinojosa who was but once example. Reminded me of the existence of the family name "Mexican" among the Navajo.
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
Back to Top
opuslola View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
suspended

Joined: 23-Sep-2009
Location: Long Beach, MS,
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4620 		  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 20:20
When I finally found this spur, I was amazed when after I had read all of the posts, I realized just how "Yankee" the rest of you were! Amazing!

All of those great minds above, who are or were mostly from above the Mason-Dixon Line, failed to mention the only tribe that never signed a treaty of any type with either the USA or the CUSA!

They were known by two names, however! Andy Jackson fought them in the Mississippi Territory as the (I will let those of you who claim to be Native American experts to name them!) and later, after being driven into Florida, they still exist (without any known treaty with the USA) to exist!

As a clue, they are the tribe that still supports a Florida College team! Again, I will let the "experts" among you determine the name(s) of this "most fierce" tribe!

I may even have a relative by marriage with one of the most famous of them?

Regards,
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2010 at 05:54
Originally posted by lirelou

Not all 'Comanche' were genetically 'Comanche'. Outsiders could become 'comanche' through long association with them, and by their performance in war and raiding. His book contains a sketch of a certain Jesus Hinojosa who was but once example.
As a side note, the Comancheros lived in the the same area as the Comanches (nort east New Mexico).  The Comancheros were a multi ethnic group of whites, Mexicans, escaped slaves and Native Americans. In addition to being part time bandits, Comancheros traded slaves (ironic), whiskey and modern weapons to the Comanches, Southeren Cheyenne and other tribes.   
 
 
Originally posted by opuslola


As a clue, they are the tribe that still supports a Florida College team! Again, I will let the "experts" among you determine the name(s) of this "most fierce" tribe!
 Seminole


Edited by Cryptic - 01-Apr-2010 at 06:10
Back to Top
lirelou View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 26-Mar-2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 528 		  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Apr-2010 at 08:09
Opus. in re:  "I realized just how "Yankee" the rest of you were!"

Proudly so, but that appears to be a topic for another thread.
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.