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Dwarves were Israelites?

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dwarves were Israelites?
    Posted: 21-Dec-2012 at 08:38

In Tolkein's book the Hobbit, the technologically advanced race of Dwarves are expelled from their homeland by orcs and dragons and are forced to wander the wilderness until their king leads a group to retake their old stronghold. In Scandinavian myth, the similarities with ancient Israelites are even more pronounced: the Dwarves teach the Vikings' ancestors the secret of steel (invented in the Palestinian town of Damascus), always have gold, are skilled craftsmen, and are suspicious of strangers until they earn their trust. Ancient Israelites were known to be very short in stature, had long beards and would have appeared stocky (especially if they wore layers of fur clothing to keep warm).
Could the Norsemen have encountered (and assimilated) descendents of one of the lost Israelite tribes (perhaps an offshoot of the so-called "Red Jews"), and does this explain why a few Viking rulers, like Halfdan, had black hair?
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2012 at 08:46
Glad to see ya alive.
 
 
 
As for the rest of yours above? Tis interesting but you forget the actual mythology. Twsn't the Jews...but Giants.... tho in saying that; I suppose we can call them the Nephilim.Wink
 
 
 
 
''Fire and wind come from the sky, from the gods of the sky. But Crom is your god, Crom and he lives in the earth. Once, giants lived in the Earth, Conan. And in the darkness of chaos, they fooled Crom, and they took from him the enigma of steel. Crom was angered. And the Earth shook. Fire and wind struck down these giants, and they threw their bodies into the waters, but in their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men. The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.''
 
 
 
 
 
Conan The Babrbarian
RE Howard
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  Quote rellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2012 at 11:00
.

More likely, the Hyksos Pharaohs were the Israelites. Remember that the Hyksos were exiled from Egypt in about 1600 BC, and travelled to Judaea.

Here is a comparison between these two exoduses:

THE HYKSOS PHARAOHS                  THE ISRAELITES
They were known as shepherds.                  They were known as shepherds.
They wore earrings and curly side-locks   They wore earrings and curly side-locks              
One of their kings was called Jacoba.         One of their leaders was called Jacob.
They were involved in a war with              They were involved in a war with 
           the Theban Egyptians.                                   the Egyptians.
There were storms and darkness (Tempest stele)    There were storms and darkness (plagues). 
There was an ash fall                                         There was an ashfall
Some 500,000 were ejected from Egypt         Some 500,000 were ejected from Egypt
         on a great exodus.                                                          on a great exodus.
They set off from Pi Ramesse (Avaris).        They set off from Pi Ramesse.
They travelled to Jerusalem.                            They travelled to Jerusalem.
They destroyed Jericho.                                     They destroyed Jericho.


.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2012 at 13:44
Old Professor T based his dwarves on Jews, giving them a language that draws upon Semitic words. The dwarf-king Mim in particular embodies all the old negative stereotypes: greed, avarice, and treachery as he betrayed the hero Turin for gold
http://www.jewishjournal.com/arts/article/a_ring_of_bias_not_likely_20011214
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2012 at 09:11
Some fundamentalist nutjobs believe the Vikings themselves are a lost Israelite tribe. While this is, of course, nonsense, scientists have found some Semitic DNA in Danish skeletons. This may have come from the mythical dwarves/Jews who married Viking women and whose children forgot the faith of their ancestors
http://www.orange-street-church.org/text/lost-tribe-migration.htm
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2012 at 09:25
...or incest mating results!There is debate in Danish parliament about First level marriages permission.
Cousins&brothers&sisters!Somehow i knew who those people are!What do normal people look for in swamp
of Denmark anyway?Big smile
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2012 at 09:38
Here you are:
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/ECE794315/can-cousin-marriages-be-banned/
   I saw the picture,people are running in front of "Slavic" attacks in swamps on walls of castle&museum in Denmark!Who did those "pure" refuges hurt so much?!?Big smileTheir former slaves&offspring
bred in "cuckoo"'s nests!Alimony&Revenge they needed only!Pure Romans.LOL
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2012 at 19:04
Jews and Scandinavians alike had a gene resistant to Aids. It's likely they shared a distant ancestor: perhaps one of the Khazars?
http://sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=490
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2012 at 05:52
Possibly hobbits.
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2012 at 08:20


I love these topics you post Nick, very interesting.

I think that it's very possible for Scandinavians to have met some Israelites and made up a whole mythology about them as time passed. What I'm wondering about is the 'how'...

When do you propose that this happened? Was it an entire Jewish tribe that traveled to Scandinavia or was it a group of Vikings that visited the Holy land and came back with tall tales?

Dwarves in Norse mythology were renowned to be blacksmiths, smelters and miners. How many mines were there in the region back then? I heard there were quite a few tin and copper mines next the dead sea.


Timidi mater non flet
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2012 at 08:37
That leaves out hobbits then.
 
Concerning the Nature of Hobbits in Tolkien's Middle-earth
 
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  Quote Salah ad-Din Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2012 at 15:36
These types of thread will scare people away.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jan-2013 at 09:49
Originally posted by Baal Melqart



I love these topics you post Nick, very interesting.

I think that it's very possible for Scandinavians to have met some Israelites and made up a whole mythology about them as time passed. What I'm wondering about is the 'how'...

When do you propose that this happened? Was it an entire Jewish tribe that traveled to Scandinavia or was it a group of Vikings that visited the Holy land and came back with tall tales?

Dwarves in Norse mythology were renowned to be blacksmiths, smelters and miners. How many mines were there in the region back then? I heard there were quite a few tin and copper mines next the dead sea.



Baal, either speculation is plausible. A Jewish tribe was said to have moved north to Russia, making it possible the legendary "Dwarves" were an offshoot of this group. You rarely hear of dwarf women in mythology, so perhaps the Israelites the Vikings encountered left their polygamous tribe due to a shortage of women. Ancient Israel was a significant producer of copper and bronze, some of which was exported to Egypt. After the war with the Philistines, the Jews learned to smelt iron
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/History/Early+History+-+Archaeology/Archaeological+Sites+in+Israel+-+Timna-+Valley+of.htm
http://www.gci.org/bible/hist/weapons
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2013 at 08:00
One of the Norse names for dwarf was "svartalf" or "dark elf." Schwartz is a common Jewish name in central Europe, and many people of Jewish descent have black hair
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2013 at 08:40
Originally posted by Salah ad-Din

These types of thread will scare people away.

Why? A lot of ancient mythology was based on exaggerated acccounts of historical events (like Noah's flood, King Arthur, or the destruction of Atlantis)
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jan-2013 at 10:14
The Germans call dwarves Zwerge. This also sounds similar to Schwartz, Svart, or Swarthy. Medenaywe our Master of Meanings can provide a better definition than me
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jan-2013 at 07:24
If there is sound Va=slave&slavery&enslaves does not sounds good Nick?Big smile
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jan-2013 at 13:06
Originally posted by medenaywe

If there is sound Va=slave&slavery&enslaves does not sounds good Nick?Big smile

The Jews were enslaved several times in their history: by the Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks and Romans. The "Dwarves" could have left Israel long before the destruction of the Temple and, though assimilation with Europeans, dwindle until only a handful of skilled craftsmen remained
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2013 at 11:38
The Vikings believed dwarves were made from the maggots that devoured the corpse of a giant. An example of early antisemitism, perhaps?
http://www.viking-mythology.com/dwarfs.html
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 20:19
http://www.vcoins.com/backoffice/upload/product_image/160/m/mK8SPfD3wA5obNC9d7dHKq6nA4pY2c.jpg
Mythical dwarves were known to use axes, and so were the ancient Israelites (Jeremiah 51:20). Unlike swords, these could be used both for warfare and for more peaceful everyday tasks. Perhaps the representation of dwarves as miners and stone carvers was based on the Israelites' captivity in Egypt when they quarried building blocks and dug the tombs of the pharaohs
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