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Skanderbeg and the Arbresh of South Italy

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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Skanderbeg and the Arbresh of South Italy
    Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 17:30

I was talking about Hellenic Epirus,of course,,not Albanian one.

Concerning the statue,i find it more preferable to gather all foreign heroes in a museum ,rather than having them in Hellenic squares.That's the best thing can be done right now.
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  Quote Kotsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 17:44
Akritas, Botsaris (search for Botsaris/Kastriotis) family if i remember right [it's late] and some more.
Before you think of groupping people into origins, it's beyond discussion he gave the modern meaning of a Greek, being of the first independent people of Greece, first modern Greek.
Most descendants of soldiers of Skanderbegs army are the Italy's Arberesh, for whom the topic is dedicated, and they also played a prominent role in the independence of modern day Albania.



,i find it more preferable to gather all foreign heroes in a museum ,rather than having them in Hellenic squares.That's the best thing can be done right now.

yes, it could be better done this way nowadays.


Edited by Kotsos - 04-Jun-2006 at 17:46

nje faqe nje fare
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 17:53

Concerning the term Hellen,you do not born a Hellen,you become one.

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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 18:18

Kotsos I didn't ask to tell the genealogic tree of Kastriotis or Botsaris.I  am ask  you to tell me who are the descendants of survivals of Skanderbeg's soldiers  in Greece  that you mentioned ?  Were Greeks or something else?

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  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2006 at 19:03
look akritas, as i want to become a diplomat in the future, but also as a humble citizen of my country, i want Albania to have good relations with Greece. For 1000 reasons, that i wont mention here. But that issue wont let the relations improve. We (as countries not as people)have to face that issue.I am not telling that the claims of that community are right and standing. Their ancestors probably never lived in greece. But why Greek state doesnt face this problem in a completely transparent process of confronting their documents for the ownership of the land with greek counterproofs. Greek government should clarify that this people are wrong, and then we all go happy in our way towards integration. (I guess the problem will be IF they are not).
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  Quote Kotsos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 03:23
Akrita i have already answered your question.
Originally posted by Akritas

who are the descendants of survivals of Skanderbeg's soldiers ?

Originally posted by Kotsos

Akritas, Botsaris (search for Botsaris/Kastriotis) family if i remember right [it's late] and some more.


Originally posted by Akrita

Kotsos I didn't ask to tell the genealogic the of Kastriotis or Botsaris.

i don't understand you: nobody gave you a genealogic tree. You asked a question and i answered. Look above.

i also said in the next line, that they [Botsaraioi] were modern Greeks, as some modern Greeks are those who descend from Botsaris family (who's family's traditions connect them with Kastrioti's army). in such a way, Kastriota's army is somewhat "connected" with modern Greeks.

i think it's clearer now, if you didn't understand something we can continue discussing with pms or open another topic, Peiraioti Big smile

Arbr i agree that this thing is bringing to a halt good relations.



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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:13
    
some statue should be built in Greece as well.



Kotsos. That statue, its in Rome. It has less to do with honoring Scanderbeg actions, but his actions to the Catholic Church(by participating in the crusade and being proclaimed "Athleta Christi"), there is a statue of Scanderbeg in southern Italy, the Arberesh revear him like a saint and even depict him in church frescos(seeHere

Edited by Theodore Felix - 05-Jun-2006 at 11:14
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:15
Originally posted by Arbr Z

look akritas, as i want to become a diplomat in the future, but also as a humble citizen of my country, i want Albania to have good relations with Greece. For 1000 reasons, that i wont mention here. But that issue wont let the relations improve. We (as countries not as people)have to face that issue.I am not telling that the claims of that community are right and standing. Their ancestors probably never lived in greece. But why Greek state doesnt face this problem in a completely transparent process of confronting their documents for the ownership of the land with greek counterproofs. Greek government should clarify that this people are wrong, and then we all go happy in our way towards integration. (I guess the problem will be IF they are not).
We go out of the topic.If you want answers I will be glad to participate in a topic that concern the Chams.
Greek state closed this thread with the Justice via trials and the participation of the UN observers .That's why your gov all these years stay silence.
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  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:19
Originally posted by Kotsos

Akrita i have already answered your question.

i don't understand you: nobody gave you a genealogic tree. You asked a question and i answered. Look above.

i also said in the next line, that they [Botsaraioi] were modern Greeks, as some modern Greeks are those who descend from Botsaris family (who's family's traditions connect them with Kastrioti's army). in such a way, Kastriota's army is somewhat "connected" with modern Greeks.

i think it's clearer now, if you didn't understand something we can continue discussing with pms or open another topic, Peiraioti Big smile
Yes now it's clear. BTW did you ever hear the Reggimento Reale Macedone (mentioned from Vakalopoulos in History of Epirus)?
 
In 1736 the Ruler of the Neapols Charles C (1716-1788) recognized the Greek infrection in the all sectors (education, religion, people) moved on at the region of the Abruzzo bestowal lands and the creations of College , Church and of a Military Corp. This Corp named as "Reggimento Reale Macedone" or Royal Regiment of Macedonia.
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  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:54
Akritas, the Albanian state and its government should stay out of that problem. It has to do with the greek state and a certain comunity living in albania. As you know, justice si done in many levels (hierarchic). As this people claim to be depatriated, I believe the trial should be kept in a impartial country, and with an impartial jury, because the parts will be the greek state and that comunity.
 
Now lets get back to the topic.
Scanderbeg is not honoured only for his catholic christian deeds. He is the national hero of all albanians, and modern states honour him also for that (paying respect to the albanian comunities).
There are statues of scanderbeg in Rome, St.Demeter Corone / Shn Mitr Koron as well as in three other communities where arbresh live. And in Albania, as well as in Kosova there are statues or streets anmed in the honour of Garibaldi, for example.
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  Quote Arbresh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 11:56
Dear all,
as my nickname suggests I'am an Arbresh from south Italy more exactly from sicily. I feel an Italian "tout a fait" belonging to the albanophone minority of Italy (about 100000 still speaking arbristh). There are many other minority community in Italy: you can find greek minority (still speaking an ancient greek langue) in the south of Italy (close to Reggio Calabria) and in Apulia (near to Lecce). There are some other minorities in Italy:in the north of Italy the german-speaking of Trentino, the Ladins, the French (Valle d'Aosta). I know also about the existence of a Croate minority in Molise (south Italy region). All these communities are recognized by Italian state and protected by specific laws. No irredentistical claims from these minorities but mutual respect with our Italian compatriots!
I know that in Greece not such a law (minorities recognition and specifical laws for minorities protection) exists so that the arvanites are simply considered Hellenic citizens. I'd like to know much more about arvanites: where are they settled?Do exist village whose inhabitants speak the arvanite language?I have been many times in Greece and I would like to meet an Arvanite: it could be interesting to talk using the Arbrisht.
Let me know!
All the best/ju Falem/Na iste kala!
Arbresh i Siilies Big%20smile
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2009 at 15:59
 
 
     Bull shit , Skenderbeu`s army has nothing to do with greeks absolutely nothing ,
    I really dont think that greek army even existed that time .
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2009 at 17:23
Originally posted by States of Albania

 
 
     Bull shit , Skenderbeu`s army has nothing to do with greeks absolutely nothing ,
    I really dont think that greek army even existed that time .
 
Sometimes a word comes along filled with such imagery that the mind runs rampant in creative thought. At other times such a word becomes so litteral in description and simple in thought that there can be no denying the emotional state of its owner and his intellectual frame of reference as well. Nonesense, baloney, bull, blather and drivel all take a back seat to the simple excretion of a prized fighter.  
 
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  Quote sjeskander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2015 at 06:33
In my father's village (in Cosenza), they switched from greek byzantine to latin / roman catholic in the mid 1600's because the priests had to be educated in Greece.  The story is on the home page at the San Martino website.
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  Quote sjeskander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2015 at 06:34
Originally posted by sjeskander

In my father's village (in Cosenza), they switched from greek byzantine to latin / roman catholic in the mid 1600's because the priests had to be educated in Greece.  The story is on the home page at the San Martino website.

but after some time they converted in Roman Catholics, even though their church preserved the Byzanthine rites.


I dont believe they were converted. Their churches were handed over to Roman Catholic authority. At that point they became Byzantine Catholics, as they remain today.
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  Quote sjeskander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2015 at 06:39
I have a family crest that my great grandmother hand stitched on a blanket over 100 years ago.  My grandmother told me her ancestors were nobles or royalty or some such thing.  I have not been able to find anyone who can tell me where to get info on the family crest, and my efforts to track it down on my own online have been unsuccessful.  My grandmother was a LiCursi (Lekurse) and the crest has a double headed eagle with a checkerboard shield on the eagle's chest, and a crown over the top of the eagle's heads.  There's an ensign, also, which I think means bringing a dead soldier home from battle - but I'm not sure.  Any help would be appreciated - thank you.  PS - my family were most likely Morea's as they came over in the early 1500's.
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2015 at 11:31
If you can post a pic, perhaps someone here can help.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2015 at 15:53
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2015 at 02:14
Btw.... Skanderbeg was one of the finest examples of a numerically inferior force, to consistently defeat, superior and in general, better equipped forces.

The Military Arts can produce few examples of the 'Lord of Albania's' efforts in his day.
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