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Topic ClosedTurks = Mongoloid mix DNA shows

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turks = Mongoloid mix DNA shows
    Posted: 02-Dec-2012 at 08:37
There is no pure Turks except for some Yakuts who are pure mongoloids. Even among Anatolian Turks there is no people who is pure Caucasoid this seems to suggest Turks were most likely mongoloid or predominately mongoloid, they had to be mixed at least.


Each line represents a individual sample genetic admixture.



Edited by MrButlerKing - 02-Dec-2012 at 08:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Dec-2012 at 08:49
Because they are different genetic projects.Are you genetic engineer?SmileRegards Dr.Butler King.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Dec-2012 at 14:39
Originally posted by MrButlerKing

There is no pure Turks except for some Yakuts who are pure mongoloids.


Which colour does show the mongoloid genes? yellow or orange? it should be yellow and that means Yakut Turks are more mongoloid than Mongolians. There is a logical mistake in here. We shouldn't call mongoloid because mongolian people don't have pure genetic structure. We should use yakudoid or something elseBig smile. Mix one is mongolian people. Majority of them become Yakut and East Asia genes(yellow-high in Yakut people and orange-high in Han, Dai people)

Originally posted by MrButlerKing


Turks were most likely mongoloid or predominately mongoloid, they had to be mixed at least.


This is a false theory, beacuse there are some turkic tribes who has a little mongoloid DNA like Turkmens and Turks. you can compare blue&green level and yellow&orange level
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 04:32
Which colour does show the mongoloid genes? yellow or orange? it should be yellow and that means Yakut Turks are more mongoloid than Mongolians. There is a logical mistake in here. We shouldn't call mongoloid because mongolian people don't have pure genetic structure. We should use yakudoid or something elseBig smile. Mix one is mongolian people. Majority of them become Yakut and East Asia genes(yellow-high in Yakut people and orange-high in Han, Dai people)

There is no mistake,  both are mongoloid

Yellow = Siberian Mongoloid
Orange = East Asian Mongoloid
Green = Central south Asian Iranic
Dark blue = European
Light blue = West Asian
Gray = Arabic


This is a false theory, beacuse there are some turkic tribes who has a little mongoloid DNA like Turkmens and Turks. you can compare blue&green level and yellow&orange level

The turks were hybrid of mongoloid and Caucasoid is currently the most accepted theory. The reconstruction of Turks from 200 BC already showed them to be predominately mongoloid with some caucasoid admixture like the Xiongnu and gokturks who were the firsts looks mongoloid. These groups later conquered Central Asia ( Indo-European Iranic lands) and intermarried with the Indo-European people which diluted their mongoloid features but still significant in many people.

Here is what Gokturks and Xiongnu look like. They were Mongoloid hybrid group with even green eyes, brown hair, red hair, blue eyes, blonde hair surprisingly.





Edited by MrButlerKing - 04-Dec-2012 at 04:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 04:35
Both Turkmen and Turkish are not majority Turkic, they mixed with the original people who turks conquered. Turkmen are the result of these Iranic and half mongoloid turks who conquered them. Turkish are results of these Half mongoloid seljuk turks and Anatolians. The original people in Turkmenistan spoke Iranic languages like Tajiks long before they spoke Turkic.

Turkmen genetics

Genetic studies on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) restriction polymorphism confirmed that Turkmen were characterized by the presence of local Iranian mtDNA lineages, similar to the Eastern Iranian populations, but high male Mongoloid genetic component observed in Turkmens and Eastern Iranian populations with the frequencies of about 20%

There are 3 types of Turkmens today

The ones in Afghan, Pakistan who look predominately mongoloid 
The ones in Iraq who looks like Arabs caucasoid
The ones in Turkmenistan are like 16-18% mongoloid on average but 1/3 of them are also 26 - 33% Mongoloid.

Turkmen in Afghanistan



Edited by MrButlerKing - 04-Dec-2012 at 04:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 04:45
Turkmen in Pakistan


Turkmen in Turkmenistan ( some look like these)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 11:33
Originally posted by MrButlerKing

There is no mistake,  both are mongoloid

Yellow = Siberian Mongoloid
Orange = East Asian Mongoloid
Green = Central south Asian Iranic
Dark blue = European
Light blue = West Asian
Gray = Arabic
[quote]

I need this explanation Big smile. But the name mongoloid still means like mongolian for me. I can not stop myself. Is the term mongoloid means yellow race? 

[QUOTE=MrButlerKing]
The turks were hybrid of mongoloid and Caucasoid is currently the most accepted theory.

The term Turk means mostly Anatolian Turks. Turks of Central Asia is Turkic and according your sources, Turkmens has just nearly %20 mongoloid genes, Anatolian Turks less than this. That's why you can say without  Oghuz Turks (Azerbaijan, Turkmens, Anatolian Turks) most of Turkic people is mongoloid. however Oghuz Turks are Iranic and middle eastern

Map of Oghuz languages

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 02:24
Actually Turkmen has 40-45% Mongoloid. That study only included the percentages of the male DNA, female DNA should also be included. Haplogroup Q is found 10% in Turmenistan but in some city and provinces it goes up to 20%.  The altay has 32% Q and some siberian tribes 60-90% Q

In autosomal DNA  Azeris and Turkish people are basically caucasoid with slight mongoloid admixture , the average is about 6.8% but some have 13 - 16% in Adyn.

Turkmen in Turkmenistan has 16%  some are 27-29% and some are 31-33% mongoloid. However the I bet if the samples were in East Turkenistan the people would be even more mongoloid properbly 50% Mongoloid like the Turkmen are Afghan the most mongoloid Turkmen, they live in west Afghanistan close to east Turkmenistan,they would be at least 50% Mongoloid judging from their average looks.


Both Turkey and Turkmenistan are Oghuz speakers but is there anyone from Turkey that look like these Turkmen ?




Edited by MrButlerKing - 05-Dec-2012 at 10:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 15:19
I still don't agree you. I belive that calling Turkmen as Iranic more suitable than mongoloid.

*"Comparison of Turkish Genetics with Turkmen Genetics"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_origins_of_the_Turkish_people

*"Genetic studies on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) restriction polymorphism confirmed that Turkmen were characterized by the presence of local Iranian mtDNA lineages, similar to the Eastern Iranian populations, but high male Mongoloid genetic component observed in Turkmens and Eastern Iranian populations with the frequencies of about 20%"

This sources says male has high Mongoloid genetic component, but just 20%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkmen_people

*Maybe Turkmen people have high level mongoloid genes then Anatolian Turks, however they still have strong other genes.


"Haplogroups (Hg) 1 and 3 were common in almost all populations, but the highest frequencies of Hg1 were found in Turkmen and Armenians"

Armenians and Turkmens have very similar charts





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2012 at 07:15
I have met a Turkmenistan girl from Russia in Los Angeles before.  You look at her, and the first impression is she is a Mexican or mixed Eurasian type. 
I have also met Azeri people from Iran (Tabriz) in Los Angeles.  Although, they look totally Middle Eastern, you sometimes see they have very soft skin and very dark black hair, makes you think there is some Central Asian genetics hidden in them as well. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Dec-2012 at 08:40
They reconstructed Seljuks skulls in Iran too and they came out looking like these Gokturks features as well.  I think conversion to Islam made the nomadic Turk more necessary to absorb or attain Caucasoid features.  You look at Ottoman Sultans and very few of their wives or women in the harem were Turkish.  They mainly came from Christian/Europeans or Circassians/Georgians.  Is this type of ongoing mixing that explains it
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2012 at 07:42
HEY... your study is only ABOUT AUTOSOMAL DNA.  However in haplogroup frequencies Turkmen have 40-45% of haplogroup Y-DNA and mtDNA.

If you want to compare Turkmen and Turkish than the genetics of Armenians and Georgians are even much more closer to Turkish than the Turkmen are to you.

Turkmen have 8.5% more west Asian than Turkish people
Turkmen have 8 - 9% more South Asian than Turkish people.

Turkish have 6.5 - 14% more atlantic baltic than Turkmen
Turkish have 7.5 - 8% more Southern than Turkmen

If we calculate it there is 30.2 - 39% Caucasian genetic difference and that is not including the Mongoloid admixture.



Just because the average Turkmen is only 16% Mongoloid doesn't mean all are, as you can see some of the samples shows 27 - 33% Mongoloid admixture while no Turkish have more than 15% Mongoloid admixture.

Show me Turkish people who look like these Turkmen from Turkmenistan


Turkmen in Afghanistan

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2012 at 08:41
For example of the Turkmen individual samples that were tested in Turkmenistan.

Below 25% mongoloid


28% less than 16% Mongoloid admixture ( 13-15%)
23.07% of Turkmen have 16% Mongoloid admixture ( average number )
15.2% of Turkmen have 18% Mongoloid admixture
7.6% of Turkmen have 22.5% Mongoloid admixture

Over 25-30% mongoloid

7.6% of Turkmen have 27% Mongoloid admixture
7.6% of Turkmen have 31% Mongoloid admixture

15.2% Turkmen have over 25-30% mongoloid admixture which is enough to influence their physical appearance to some degree and some can even end looking more mongoloid and adding to the fact Siberian mongoloid gene is very much stronger than caucasoid which contributes to their mongoloid appearance.



Edited by MrButlerKing - 27-Dec-2012 at 03:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Dec-2012 at 10:30
Originally posted by MrButlerKing







This suits your sources. From Caucasoid to Northeast and East Asian, order is Armenian, Turk and Turkmens.

Turkmens are just one step back to the line(between-Mongoloid and Caucasoid) and when I look the Turkmen, I am seeing light blue and green colour. You told be

Yellow = Siberian Mongoloid
Orange = East Asian Mongoloid
Green = Central south Asian Iranic
Dark blue = European
Light blue = West Asian
Gray = Arabic

Not yellow and orange like other turkic nations. They are obviously different than other turkic tribes such as Uzbek, Uyghur, Kazakh and Kirgiz



Originally posted by MrButlerKing

Show me Turkish people who look like these Turkmen from Turkmenistan



a Turkish singer and a national football player

a Turkish beauty queen of the world.


Edited by Ollios - 09-Dec-2012 at 10:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2012 at 12:58
Hi Mr butler, do you have the same chart for south asian populations from Pakistan/India?

I want to see all the south asian populations, I believe the Dark green is (ANI) Ancestral north indian, this component even though it;s called Indian, it really not.  It is found highest in afghan and northern pakistani populations like Pashtuns, but as you can see even central asians have a lot of it, this dark green component defiantly did not originate in south asia, maybe south/central asian region, but definatly not in what we call (India) today which is proper south asia


Edited by balochii - 19-Dec-2012 at 13:01
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 16:58
Originally posted by Ollios


The term Turk means mostly Anatolian Turks.

No, this was introduced in 1923, when Turkey decided to be national state of Turks.
I thought this forum is somehow connected to history.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Dec-2012 at 13:56
Originally posted by Vdkn67

Originally posted by Ollios


The term Turk means mostly Anatolian Turks.

No, this was introduced in 1923, when Turkey decided to be national state of Turks.
I thought this forum is somehow connected to history.

There's no need for that sort of attitude Vdkn67. Ollios is a valued member here and deserves respect. If anything he says offends you (unintentional, or deliberate), don't insult him but notify the admins:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512&PID=681123#681123
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2012 at 01:56
Originally posted by Vdkn67


this was introduced in 1923, when Turkey decided to be national state of Turks.


*Was it? Why people in Europe, use this idiom, "Mamma li Turchi". Is this idiom came from after 1923? No, people of Europe always accept Ottomans as Turk

*When you say Americans, we understand not all people of North and South Americans, just one nation. It is quite similar thing. You should use Kazaks or Kazak Turks, if you want to mean them. 

Originally posted by Vdkn67


I thought this forum is somehow connected to history.


This is not an acedemic forum. We all can have mistakes. Even you can also share your ideas.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2012 at 13:37
Originally posted by Nick1986

Originally posted by Vdkn67

Originally posted by Ollios


The term Turk means mostly Anatolian Turks.

No, this was introduced in 1923, when Turkey decided to be national state of Turks.
I thought this forum is somehow connected to history.

There's no need for that sort of attitude Vdkn67. Ollios is a valued member here and deserves respect. If anything he says offends you (unintentional, or deliberate), don't insult him but notify the admins:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512&PID=681123#681123

What was insulting in my post???? What sentence showed my disrespect???
How did I insult him????
Let me be clear:
Ottoman Empire was not national state of Turks. Sultan was God`s agent on earth, his purpose was to defend and propagate religion. Theocracy. Inhabitants were differed by religion, Muslims and non-Mulsims (gyaurs, rayah).
After collapse of Ottoman Empire, on 24.July 1923. Turkey was recognized as national state of Turks.
By analogy, Arabs live all over north Africa, Middle East etc. Would it be false to say: "The term Arab means mostly Arab from United Arab Emirates".
If this attitude insults anybody, then seems this forum is not right place for me.
edited:
When you say Americans, we understand not all people of North and South Americans, just one nation.

Of course, I also spit on this sentence, as it means nothing. I can not imagine "American" nation, by any definition of nation last 100 years.


 



Edited by Vdkn67 - 23-Dec-2012 at 13:48
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2012 at 14:05
You've broken no rules so far Vdkn67, but in my experience, threads of this type often turn into flame wars. All members are reminded to respect each other, regardless of whether they agree or not
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