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Topic ClosedTurks = Mongoloid mix DNA shows

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turks = Mongoloid mix DNA shows
    Posted: 09-Jun-2015 at 10:46
Mertegin, go easy my friend.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 08:12
I want to rephrase my request. I am ready to proof the fact that Turks from Türkiye are 100% of CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN.

If the obvious trolls like MrButlerKing has nothing to say, it means that they are wrong, the thesis that i am defending is the fact: "Turks from Türkiye are 100% of CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN". If someone does not agree, come with your counter arguments using historical, archaeological, anthropological and genetic sources.

If i see no reply, it means that the creators of this kind of topics are obviously trolls. If you search "MrButlerKing" on google you will see the history of messages related to this troll on several forums, you will see what kind of bad intended non scientific approach he has. I am warning everyone reading the messages of these kind of trolls: "USE YOUR LOGICS, INVESTIGATE THE SCIENTIFIC SOURCES, CREATE YOUR OWN DATABASE, AND YOU WILL SEE THAT THE TURKS OF TÜRKİYE ARE OF 100% CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 08:35
LOOK AT THE PORTRAITS PAINTED BY ANCIENT ARTISTS, OF OUR ANCESTOR ATTILA. IT IS OBVIOUSLY OF WEST EURASIAN TURK ORIGIN.





















Edited by kuzzar - 13-Jun-2015 at 08:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 10:10
Originally posted by kuzzar

If someone does not agree, come with your counter arguments using historical, archaeological, anthropological and genetic sources. 

You also need it too, I am waiting your sources 

Originally posted by kuzzar


If i see no reply, it means that the creators of this kind of topics are obviously trolls.

You can get nothing with this language.


Originally posted by kuzzar

If you search "MrButlerKing" on google you will see the history of messages related to this troll on several forums, you will see what kind of bad intended non scientific approach he has. I am warning everyone reading the messages of these kind of trolls: 

Avoid personal attacks, focus on arguments, theories, sources

Originally posted by kuzzar

"USE YOUR LOGICS, INVESTIGATE THE SCIENTIFIC SOURCES, CREATE YOUR OWN DATABASE, AND YOU WILL SEE THAT THE TURKS OF TÜRKİYE ARE OF 100% CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN".

Sorry but I am using my logic, investigate the scientific sources, create my own database and still I can't see your point. Maybe you should explain "THE TURKS OF TÜRKİYE ARE OF 100% CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN" before start to proof it.

Who are the Turks of Turkey? 

all 75 million or 55-60 million(-kurds from all population )???

What do you mean by 100% Central Asian Turk Origin?

Autosomal DNA, YDNA or Mt-DNA???







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 17:56
Originally posted by Aeoli

You also need it too, I am waiting your sources


Forgive me for asking, are you blind?

Turk Nation: Anthropology-Archaeology-Genetic-Haplogroups
http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12267

Antik DNA
http://www.turktoresi.com/viewforum.php?f=229

Tarihi Mezarlarda Bulunan Haplogrupların Ülkeler Listesi
http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12209

Tarihi Mezarlarda Bulunan Y-DNA'lerin, MT-DNA Kombinasyonu
http://www.turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=229&t=12210

Originally posted by Aeoli

You can get nothing with this language.
Avoid personal attacks, focus on arguments, theories, sources


All arguments are at those links. My statement is clear: "TURKS FROM TÜRKİYE ARE 100% OF TURK ETHNIC ORIGIN!". I just want to see a counter reaction to my statement, in which he/she(or someone else) explains why they think Turks of Türkiye are not of Turk origin. Then i will provide all my arguments one by one, show you how wrong you are.

Look at the messages of "ButlerKing", at the following link: http://www.forumbiodiversity.com/showthread.php/37808-Crimean-Tatars-are-not-Turkic-but-an-mixture-of-many-settlement-from-Europe-to-Asia?s=a77c43faad64182258c73b2f7e7705ff.

Look how irrational and non logical his statements are. It is obvious he is a troll.

Originally posted by Aeoli

Sorry but I am using my logic, investigate the scientific sources, create my own database and still I can't see your point. Maybe you should explain "THE TURKS OF TÜRKİYE ARE OF 100% CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN" before start to proof it.

Who are the Turks of Turkey? 

all 75 million or 55-60 million(-kurds from all population )???

What do you mean by 100% Central Asian Turk Origin?

Autosomal DNA, YDNA or Mt-DNA???


All my arguments are at the links i provided. It is obvious what i mean with my statement "THE TURKS OF TÜRKİYE ARE OF 100% CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN": Turks are direct descendants of ancient Central Asian Turks, Huns and Sakha's/Scythians.

And i am asking you, based on which Y-DNA haplogroups, do you think that the modern Turks of Türkiye, are not of Central Asian Turk origin?


Edited by kuzzar - 13-Jun-2015 at 19:59
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 19:56
Seems extremely unlikely - given the extent & longevity of the Ottoman empire..

With Constantinople being the ancient capital/hub of Eastern European/Western Asian civilisation, & for so long a melting-pot
of the ethnicities, a situation carried on by the Ottomans..

The over-riding Islamic dogma subsumed ethnic distinctions like-wise..

& do not forget the progress of Tamerlane & his minions through Asia minor, spreading their Mongoloid DNA through raping Turkic women..


Edited by J.A.W. - 13-Jun-2015 at 20:01
Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 20:11
Originally posted by J.A.W.

Seems extremely unlikely - given the extent & longevity of the Ottoman empire..

With Constantinople being the ancient capital/hub of Eastern European/Western Asian civilisation, & for so long a melting-pot
of the ethnicities, a situation carried on by the Ottomans..

The over-riding Islamic dogma subsumed ethnic distinctions like-wise..


At the Ottoman Archives, a complete database with the ethnic origin of all families(Turk or not Turk, Muslim or not Muslim) who were living in the region of present day Türkiye is available. Every Turk in Türkiye can trace his family line with these archive documents. The same methods counts for other country archives. We must realize that if we dont value historical documents, it means we are not seeking for the truth, and it also means that there is no such thing as history at all. There is no such thing as a melting-pot, everyone knows their roots, and the Selcukids and Ottomans did not even assimilate one population, in stead an important part of the Turks have been assimilated. All of this could easily be seen from historical documents. And please stop with the obvious tactic of calling Türkiye a meltingpot. Why do people like yourself not even mention the fact that many present day Jews are of Turk origin, descended from the Khazars? Who are the most ancient people of Anatolia and Mezopotamia? What was the origin of the language the Sumerians did talk? Why never question these fundamental points? You people always have the same strategy, same keywords, i personally find this very pathetic. Why, is Türkiye a meltingpot? What are historical or genetic arguments for this?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2015 at 22:28
So then, what about those Ottoman Sultans who were descended
on their mother's side from European Christian slaves?

If such breeding was fit for the Sultan, why not for any of his subjects?

& the presence in the modern Turkish population of light-coloured eyes, blue, grey & green - clearly originates with genes from Northern Europe, not Asia..

Only those rare empires which were institutionally restricted to ethnic or 'racial' castes - were not melting-pots.. & Islam AFAIK, forbade such distinctions..


Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 01:31
Originally posted by kuzzar

All my arguments are at the links i provided. It is obvious what i mean with my statement "THE TURKS OF TÜRKİYE ARE OF 100% CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN": Turks are direct descendants of ancient Central Asian Turks, Huns and Sakha's/Scythians.

This is a figure from your source
What I see with my blind eyes, is below

In Saka period, people who lived in Kazakhstan, were not 100% same with people in ProtoTurks period 
In Hun period, people who lived in Kazakhstan, were not 100% same with people in Saka period
In Gokturk period, people who lived in Kazakhstan, were not 100% same with people in Hun period
In Mongol period, people who lived in Kazakhstan, were not 100% same with people in Gokturk period



Originally posted by kuzzar


And i am asking you, based on which Y-DNA haplogroups, do you think that the modern Turks of Türkiye, are not of Central Asian Turk origin?

If you want to talk about Y-DNA, just check wiki to see how different Turks in Anatolia from Central Asian Brothers Kazaks (66,7% haplogroup C), Kırghız (63,5% R1a)  

(Turkish source, but you will just check the table)

An advise, do an autosomal dna test and learn who much Central Asian you are? Mine is 6%
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 03:52
& isn't the renowned Kemal Ataturk, shown in colour portraits as
having blue eyes..
So that even the "Father of the Turks" surely cannot be of 100% Central Asian origin, genetically..
Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 07:10
Originally posted by Aeoli


All my arguments are at the links i provided. It is obvious what i mean with my statement "THE TURKS OF TÜRKİYE ARE OF 100% CENTRAL ASIAN TURK ORIGIN": Turks are direct descendants of ancient Central Asian Turks, Huns and Sakha's/Scythians.

This is a figure from your source

What I see with my blind eyes, is below

In Saka period, people who lived in Kazakhstan, were not 100% same with people in ProtoTurks period 
In Hun period, people who lived in Kazakhstan, were not 100% same with people in Saka period
In Gokturk period, people who lived in Kazakhstan, were not 100% same with people in Hun period
In Mongol period, people who lived in Kazakhstan, were not 100% same with people in Gokturk period


No, you did not understand the meaning of the figure. First of all, it is about the anthropological types found in the region of Kazakhstan. The ancestors of present day Türkiye Turks are the Huns, Sakha and Gök Türk. Proto Turks consisted of people with both West Eurasian and East Eurasian skull types, but the core of the Proto Turks had a West Eurasian origin. This core is able to be explained with an example of the tribe system of the Huns. The Oghurs, Acatziri, Kutrigur, etc. were the core/root of the Huns. Agathyrsi was for example also a core tribe of the Sakha's. These tribes were all of West Eurasian origin.

You can see that the Proto Turks in Kazakhstan were 100% of West Eurasian origin. But not to forget the fact that these Proto Turks were the same people with the Sumerians and the Neolithic and Bronze Age cultures of Europe. For example among the ancient samples of the same Linearbandkeramik culture is found the Y-DNA haplogroups C1(East Eurasian) and G2a(West Eurasian) together, they are both of the same nation and culture.

-Looking at the Sakha's in Kazakhstan, 85% of them belong to the West Eurasian craniometrical type.
-The Huns in Kazakhstan, belong 75% to the West Eurasian craniometrical type.
-The Turks in Kazakhstan, belong 50% to the West Eurasian craniometrical type.

If you had knowledge of the migrations the Huns conducted during the periods of Rua and Attila rule, you would have known the fact that the majority of the core of the Huns migrated to the Caucasian(around the Khazar/Caspian Sea and around the Black See) and Carpath Basin/Balkan regions.

Do you know were the centre of the Proto Bulgarians, Uz, Pecheneg, Kimak, Khazars, On-Ogurs was located before and after the migrations that were conducted during the periods of Rua and Attila? First enlighten yourself with these data. Also, do you know to which locations the majority of the core of the Mongol and Turkmen tribes between the 11th and 14th centuries made migrations? Enlighten yourself with the history of the Ilkhanid Khanate between Türkiye and Iran, the Golden Horde Khanate around the borders of the Black Sea region.

The reason for the dropping of the West Eurasian frequency in the from 100% to 30% is because of the major migrations the Sakha, Hun and Turk tribes made to most West Eurasian regions. And the Proto Turks were obviously one Turk nation with people of both West and East Eurasian origin, but the core was of West Eurasian origin. This structure is 100% the same as the structure in the Turks of Türkiye and the Turks of Central Asia, Caucasia, Carpath Basin, Russian regions, Iran, Azerbaijan, etcetera. Also, Central Asia is not restricted to only Kazakhstan.

Originally posted by Aeoli


If you want to talk about Y-DNA, just check wiki to see how different Turks in Anatolia from Central Asian Brothers Kazaks (66,7% haplogroup C), Kırghız (63,5% R1a) 

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BCrklerin_genetik_tarihi
(Turkish source, but you will just check the table)

An advise, do an autosomal dna test and learn who much Central Asian you are? Mine is 6%


First of all, i want to ask friendly a simple question, which Y-DNA haplogroups found among the Turks in Türkiye, do you think are not of Turk and Central Asian origin?

Do you know that among the Argyn tribe of the Kazakhs, haplogroup G1 was found with 87%? Did you know that there was found R1b among the Kyrgyz with a frequency of higher than 50%?

Seriously tell me, which haplogroups found among the restricted studies about the Turks of Türkiye are not of ancient Turk origin and are not found among the Central Asian and other region Turks?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 07:35
Originally posted by J.A.W.

& isn't the renowned Kemal Ataturk, shown in colour portraits as
having blue eyes..
So that even the "Father of the Turks" surely cannot be of 100% Central Asian origin, genetically..


You have a low IQ. I will share pictures of Uyghur Turks with coloured eyes. You will change your thinking mechanism when you look at these photos, and see that you were wrong.

East Turkistan:

East Turkistan


East Turkistan


East Turkistan


East Turkistan


Doğu Türkistan

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 12:04
kuzzar

Sorry, but I don't see a light inside you to make a rational conversation. 

You are still continue with a sarcastic teenage language. 

Be mature and get over something.

Then we can discuss the issue again.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 15:16
Originally posted by Aeoli

kuzzar

Sorry, but I don't see a light inside you to make a rational conversation. 

You are still continue with a sarcastic teenage language. 

Be mature and get over something.

Then we can discuss the issue again.



You are pathetic, are you afraid to give a reaction to my arguments and questions? I answered your questions. Obviously, you know how the discussion is going to end, then why even bother to participate to my request? I just want to see a reaction to my first statement, then based on that i will proof that Turks are 100% the same as the present and ancient Turks in Central Asia. Why are you so sensible to what i write? Did you read the contents of the links i provided, obviously not. You are the one that is a teenager, you are changing the subject to off topic meaningless directions. If you are not a teenager, and are a grown up man, then answer my questions, else dont bother to do anything...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 16:38
Kuzzar, your rude, abusive responses - do your views no credit..

But - thanks for the pix of the people with light-coloured eyes,
& thereby giving a clear example of a 'melting-pot' genetic admixture..

Just as some others show Semetic, or East Asian - complexion/facial features..
Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 16:43
Originally posted by J.A.W.

Kuzzar, your rude, abusive responses - do your views no credit..

But - thanks for the pix of the people with light-coloured eyes,
& thereby giving a clear example of a 'melting-pot' genetic admixture..

Just as some others show Semetic, or East Asian - complexion/facial features..


I could not follow you. I dont understand your text.... Very vague, sorry, please rephrase yourself, i really dont understand it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 16:58
It is quite plain English Kuzzar..
Is your comprehension difficulty an issue of poor education, or low IQ?

The genetics of the 'melting-pot' - of Ottoman Turkey - is just as plain - as the variations that show - in the facial features of the people, including skin tone/eye colour & etc..
Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 17:19
Originally posted by J.A.W.


The genetics of the 'melting-pot' - of Ottoman Turkey - is just as plain - as the variations that show - in the facial features of the people, including skin tone/eye colour & etc..


You have two points:

1- Genetics
2- Facial/Craniometric

I have two questions:

1- Which Y-DNA haplogroups found among the Turks of Türkiye do you not consider to be of ancient Central Asian Turk origin?

2- Which cramiometric skull types were found among the ancient Sakha and Huns? Read my previous reply to user "Aeoli", because i have already answered this point 2. As for point 1, i am waiting for your reaction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 17:34
& I am still awaiting your response to the fact of the well known
preference of wealthy & powerful Ottoman Turkish men for attractive
European wives, such as for example, Suleiman & Roxelana..
Be Modest In Thyself..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2015 at 17:40
Originally posted by J.A.W.

& I am still awaiting your response to the fact of the well known
preference of wealthy & powerful Ottoman Turkish men for attractive
European wives, such as for example, Suleiman & Roxelana..


Off topic, this has nothing to do with anything. Y-Chromosome is Father side, has nothing to do with the marrying with foreign women. You still did not answer my question, it is really a very simple question: "Which Y-DNA haplogroups found among the Turks of Türkiye do you not consider to be of ancient Central Asian Turk origin?"
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