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What if Vienna were conquered?
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iskenderani View Drop Down
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Posts: 449 		  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What if Vienna were conquered?
    Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:27
Originally posted by Tobodai

Originally posted by iskenderani

[QUOTE=Tobodai]

One cannot fully appreciate history if one only knows what did happen, what didnt happen is just as important, sometimes even more so.

How can we possibly appreciate what truly has happened without appreciating what hasnt happened?  There would be no such thing as a descisive battle had not the alternative had the potential to make a drastically different world.We can not truly appreciate the facts of our past if we merely accept what has happened as a foregone conclusion. 

Tobodai .... my argument is about speculation .History , does NOT speculate ....History is based on FACTS...

Let me give u an example ...

Vienna falls into Turkish hands....

1) The rest of the European nations unite , defeat Turkey and recapture Konstantinopolis...Probability one....Can u elaborate what the future of the whole world would have been IF this probability worked ???

2) The European nations DO NOT unite and as a result Europe slowly falls to Turkish hands and it is islamised ...Can u elaborate in what would be the face of the world today ??

3) U r aware of the inventions of Heron....in Alexandria , who practically invented the steam engine and was using steam to open and close great doors of temples or rise of statues from the floor....How long would have taken to some one to apply such an engine to a chariot ?? This would mean the start of the First Indyustrial Revolution 1500 years BEFORE...If in 300 years from the First Ind.Rev.we have advanced so far , what would have happened IF we had this Rev. 1500 years ago ??But the Bibliotheka Alexandrina , was burned to the ground .... What would have happened to the WORLD IF SHE HASN'T ????

In all these questions i have put , the answers are multiple and so many that u would never be able to draw conclusions from the hypothetical questions that produced all the answers.

No , Tobodai ....History examines FACTS and what results these facts produce , negative or positive to all . A historical fact is like a sone that falls into the calm waters of a lake ...It produces ripples which tend to dissapear , as the efects of the fact are passing through time. But , until their dissapearance they r there for u to examine them...

The rest , whatever is based in speculations ...is a historical novel...

Isk.



Edited by iskenderani
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:28
Originally posted by Yiannis

Originally posted by Oguzoglu

For Ottomans, to reach the red apple was only possible with beating Rome (Romans, also Greeks were called Romans). The same situation of the idea of conquering the west was also for Huns and others. 

That's very interesting. There's a folk tale in Greek storytelling that mentions that Emperor Constantine Paleologus, did not die when Constantinople was taken (his body was never found, remember?). Instead he was hidden in a secret chamber of Agia Sophia from where he will emmerge some day to chase the Turks back to the Red Apple Tree, where they came from!

So, it's like your story but backwards. Probably the 15th century Greeks have heard this Red Apple thing by the Ottomans, but didn't quite understand it's meaning. The red apple, in the Greek story, is back where Turks have started. I wonder what it symbolizes and why...

This "Red Apple" myth came from the ancient creation myths of the ancestors of Oguz. The red apple tree is a mythological legend of Turkic creation and its belief still survives btw even Muslim Turks. Even the Islamic Ottoman state owned these believes of ancient creationism, deriving from a wolf, and the red apple. Maybe these goals and common believs btw Turkic people are the main bonds btw us.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:36

Originally posted by Jalisco Lancer



Then the europeans would be too busy fighting agaisnt the turkish. The conquest of America would be postponed or be taken by the turkish.

Maybe America would be discovered by Turks, and a Turkic country of US would rule the world today. So we wouldnt be writing in English in these forums, but writing in Turkish, speaking Turkish as a common language all over the world since it would be the main international language like English is now. 
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iskenderani View Drop Down
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Posts: 449 		  Quote iskenderani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:48

The red apples ...the wolf and little Red Riding Hood..... Or how a fairy tale becomes a tradition...Interesting from a cultural view.

Isk.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-May-2005 at 05:53
Originally posted by iskenderani

The red apples ...the wolf and little Red Riding Hood..... Or how a fairy tale becomes a tradition...Interesting from a cultural view.

Isk.

I dont know anything about any little riding hoods. But I think most nations have some ancient believs somehow saved until today...

 
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Posts: 368 		  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2005 at 09:04
Originally posted by aknc

The Holy Roman empire, France, Italy, Spain and Britain would still be left to deal with

Britain was not that strong at the first siege,france was our ally,And the holy roman empire did not even risk a battle with us.

Spain was very powerful,but i don't know about italy

The empire sent a force in 1532 that effectively stopped the osmanly army to advance on Vienna. The Habsburgs also fought against turks in Tunis

/M
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Posts: 1449 		  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2005 at 09:49
so you are saying?
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
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Posts: 368 		  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-May-2005 at 09:53

Originally posted by aknc

so you are saying?

That the habsburgs did risk battles with the turks 
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Posts: 366 		  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2005 at 18:20

Maybe America would be discovered by Turks, and a Turkic country of US would rule the world today.

But wasn't America discovered in 1492? Weren't the Aztecs conquered in the fifteen twenties, around the time the first siege failed?
Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas
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Posts: 166 		  Quote Red_Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 18:41

1)Wouldn't have EURO Union now

2)I must be with chalma

3)bad days for europe
"The slave is fighting for freedom,free is fighting for perfectness"
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Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 19:05

Maybe America would be discovered by Turks, and a Turkic country of US would rule the world today.

 I think that's possibly the craziest thing ive heard in a long LONG time.

  



Edited by Heraclius
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 19:38
I agree with Heraclius, what ambition would the Turks have in America? If they would even get that far, which I doubt.

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Posts: 431 		  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 07:31

If Vienna had been conquered, Hungary wouldn't have conquered by the Holy League (Austria, Venice, Poland and Russia).

So, Ottoman Turks could reach Vienna only twice, when most of the Hungarians were the side of Turks: in 1529, when the king was Jnos Szapolyai, enemy of Ferdinand and in 1683, after Imre Thkly, who was appointed to king by the sultan won the Habsburgs in an insurrection.
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Posts: 543 		  Quote Kenaney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 10:04

Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa

I agree with Heraclius, what ambition would the Turks have in America? If they would even get that far, which I doubt.

I may adviece you to search after Melungeons.

 
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Posts: 1270 		  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 16:58
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melungeons
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