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Your best medieval army? |
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 Topic: Your best medieval army?Posted: 05-May-2005 at 06:30 |
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How do choose your best medieval army (10 000 soldier)? Wich tactic do you choose? I prefer: 2/3 cavalry, 1/3 infantry CAVALRY : 5 000 Heavy Knights: most important part in my army, equiped with heavy gothic-plate armor of proff (witch resist agaisnt arrow, crossbow blots, pistol or arquebus balls) armed with lances and swords. Mounted on knightly horses equiped with heavy armor (bard with flanchard, crinet, crupper, peytral, shaffron) 2 000 light cavalry of mounted archers protected by a light armor with cuirass and mail, gauntlet, greaves also armed with gun pistol and sword, mace and shield INFANTRY - equiped with light chain mail, sallet, - armed with shield, long knifes, dagger, sword, war hammer or axe or mace for hand to hand combat 1 000 archers (mix of longbowmen and arbalestrers) 1 000 men armed with gunpowder (arquebus for exemple) 1 000 pikemen (like Swiss Halberdiers) with hallebards or fauchards or gisarme, Tactic: - First attack by infantry shooting against ennemy - Charge of heavy cavalry in 2 assaults to break ennemy ranks - Assault by the rest of heavy cavalry and all the light cavalry against flanks of ennemy - Attack by infantry With a good chain of command, my heavy knights can not be defeated by an other medieval army. Wath do you think? |
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Mangudai
Consul 
Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 368 |
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Posted: 06-May-2005 at 07:49 |
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10 000 swiss pikemen will defeat anything in it's path, except maybe steppe horse-archers
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aknc
Chieftain 
Joined: 12-Mar-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1449 |
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Posted: 06-May-2005 at 12:00 |
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10 000 mongol-seljuk horse archers.Pretty neat
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"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
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aknc
Chieftain
Joined: 12-Mar-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1449 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-May-2005 at 12:33 |
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000 Heavy Knights: most important part in my army, equiped with heavy gothic-plate armor of proff (witch resist agaisnt arrow, crossbow blots, pistol or arquebus balls) armed with lances and swords. Mounted on knightly horses equiped with heavy armor (bard with flanchard, crinet, crupper, peytral, shaffron)
2 000 light cavalry of mounted archers protected by a light armor with cuirass and mail, gauntlet, greaves also armed with gun pistol and sword, mace and shield
My answer to your question; ever heard of leignizt? My tactic is that since heavy cavalary will never catch up with HA,shower them with arrows.Even barded horsed will die and the men's morale will flynch. I would use a simple turkish tactic using the parthian shot,makke them chase me,then my mongol cavalary will attack after you are dismounted,tired and angry.The mongol heavy cavalary will crush these tired men(ajn jalut,the mongols destroyed the entire left flank of the mamlukes)
Your 1000 archers will die beacuse we will chace them and kill them with litlle amount of men dieng because of the special mongol armour. The gunpowder men will fire slowly,no match against HA
Pikemen? Again, a simple turkic tactic would do
I am counting the impetious charge of "noble"cavalary. |
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"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
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Gazi
Earl 
Joined: 16-Mar-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 282 |
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Posted: 06-May-2005 at 13:57 |
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Yup heres mine; INFANTRY;20.000 Bashibouzuks (Turkish ,Kurdish,Armenan,Albanian,SerbianBulgarian bandits armed with anything they could get their hands on.)5000 Janissaries (the most vital part of the army 2000 with muskets and 3000 with chainmail ,polearm,sword and bow)And around 10.000 Gazis (Weapons varied but as they believed they were guided by God they were quite brave)5000 Tfenkis(troops armed with fine muskets) CAVALRY : 15.000 Sipahis (the backbone of my army armed according to the wealth of the Timar fief they come from.But most had bows)2000 Kapikulu Sipahis (think of them roughly mounted Janissaries) 8000 Turcoman tribal horse archers And I could also have a few guns (I suppose around 30 would be enough My tactics would depend on the army I am facing,the weather and terrain.
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Freedom is the recognition of necessity.-Friedrich Engels
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Mangudai
Consul
Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 368 |
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Posted: 09-May-2005 at 08:26 |
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Heavy cavalry routed horse-archers at several occasions - like at Lechsfield and during the first Crusade - noteably at Dorylaeum, Ascalon and Orontes
The gunpowder men will fire slowly,no match against HA
Special armour? AFAK the mongols actually feared european crossbowmen
Again, a simple turkic tactic would do If there are a strong number of well-drilled pikemen that won't succumb to the archery, then what are you gonna do? Edited by Mangudai |
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aknc
Chieftain
Joined: 12-Mar-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1449 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-May-2005 at 09:30 |
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Special armour? AFAK the mongols actually feared european crossbowmen
I am talking about normal archers.And yes,the crossbow would inflict huge damages but be destroyed because of firing too slowly
If there are a strong number of well-drilled pikemen that won't succumb to the archery, then what are you gonna do?
What can you do against a foe that you can't get near?The'll keep shooting
Special armour?
Even knights feared crossbowmen,in normal bows,the combination of armour that the mongols used prevnted them from having severe wounds
Heavy cavalry routed horse-archers at several occasions - like at Lechsfield and during the first Crusade - noteably at Dorylaeum, Ascalon and Orontes
They fought against seljuks.And the seljuks attacked too soon again,liegnitz? |
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"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
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Mangudai
Consul
Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 368 |
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Posted: 09-May-2005 at 10:07 |
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Yet the crossbowmen in Richard's army defeated the muslim horsearchers at Arsuf 1191. Actually, modern crossbowmen have achieved a rate of fire at 12 bolts/ minute. Although extreme, they weren't that slow as commonly thought. Also, crossbowmen tended to be protected by pavises.
What can you do against a foe that you can't get near?The'll keep shooting
The pikemen can do little, but if the horsearchers can't break them, the battle will turn out as a draw. Or the scenario can be that when the HA have spent all their arrows on the pikemen, the knights in Marcos army can counterattack
In a contest of pure firepower the mongols would probably win. But if the archers had pavises, protective stakes and other field defenses?
again,liegnitz? You claimed that heavy cavalry never can reach the horsearchers, which is untrue
Edited by Mangudai |
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Gazi
Earl
Joined: 16-Mar-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 282 |
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Posted: 09-May-2005 at 11:05 |
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Aknc You can NOT win a battle only using horse archery tactics.You need heavy (or at least medium) cavalry as well.The Mongols had heavy cavalry, the Seljuks had Ghulams even ancient steppe armies had some sort of heavyish cavalry(yariqli atli or sth like that) |
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Freedom is the recognition of necessity.-Friedrich Engels
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aknc
Chieftain
Joined: 12-Mar-2005 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1449 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 09-May-2005 at 11:16 |
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true I pick the mongol army then |
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"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
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Temujin
King 
Sirdar Bahadur Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: Eurasia Online Status: Offline Posts: 5221 |
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Posted: 10-May-2005 at 14:22 |
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well, when did that ever happen? just look at how the Parthians resuplied themselves with arrows at Harran. |
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vulkan02
Arch Duke 
Termythinator Joined: 27-Apr-2005 Location: U$A Online Status: Offline Posts: 1835 |
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Posted: 10-May-2005 at 20:11 |
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depends where you fight, terrain is the key.... Parthains fought on an
open field where the Romans had no chance to move plus the desert sand
made it very hard for them to see and coordinate.
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao |
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Mangudai
Consul
Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 368 |
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Posted: 11-May-2005 at 05:37 |
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Harran is the only occasion I know of where the horsearchers were resupplied |
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Temujin
King
Sirdar Bahadur Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: Eurasia Online Status: Offline Posts: 5221 |
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Posted: 11-May-2005 at 14:42 |
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but something like resuplying isn't often mentioned in battle describtions at all, and tell me a battle describtion were horse archers ever run out of ammo....and remember, HA were supposed to carry additional quivers.
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SonoftheUSA
Janissary 
Joined: 14-May-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 27 |
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Posted: 14-May-2005 at 18:14 |
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combination of archers and men-at-arms like Edward III's army at Crecy
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US patriot from the great state of Mississippi
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EvilNed
Janissary
Joined: 27-Feb-2005 Location: Sweden Online Status: Offline Posts: 28 |
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Posted: 23-May-2005 at 02:57 |
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I'm not claiming to be an expert on Medieval tactics, but there are some things which I'd like to contribute with: I've done quite a bit of research on Liegnitz, and from what I can tell, the horse archers didn't fare that well against the polish cavalry at all. Remember, there were about 10,000 men on both sides, and it was in no way an easy victory for the mongols. Also, the mongols had MUCH more horse archers than the polish had heavy cavalry, so any such comparison cannot be made. I believe it's basicly up to the terrain and commander of who'd win between these two. As for another Horse Archer tactic: There was a battle fought under the gunpowder age (forgot which one), where gunpowder soldiers, protected by polearm soldiers, utterly destroyed heavy cavalry. Now, replace the heavy cavalry with horse archers, and the gunpowder units with crossbowmen (or arbalests, since christian kings were allowed to use them against non-christian |
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John the Kern
Samurai 
Joined: 08-Mar-2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 137 |
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Posted: 23-May-2005 at 05:54 |
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2/3 Longbowmen last third into two groups but mostly footmen with billhooks , the smaller part being of course knights, have to keep the illsusion of chivalry alive dont we
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My peoples tale is written in blood
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Gavriel
Pretorian 
Joined: 17-Jun-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 151 |
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Posted: 18-Jun-2005 at 19:23 |
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I would choose
5000 Longbowmen 3000 Men at arms 2000 Knights Damn,no more men left for the Hublar scouts or the cannons(i know the cannons EdwardIII had at Crecy were rubbish but hell,they scared the horses  ) |
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Jagatai Khan
Chieftain
Jeune Turc Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Turkey Online Status: Offline Posts: 1270 |
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Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 03:37 |
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5.000 Selchukid Cavalry,2.000 Mongolian Horse Archer with 3.000 Ottoman first-period janissaries. |
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maersk
Knight 
Joined: 04-Sep-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 85 |
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Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 14:19 |
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the only reason why otto won at letchfeld was because the magyars where trapped by a river and couldent use their mobility
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"behold, vajik, khan of the magyars, scourge of the pannonian plain!"
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ffice
)
), and you've got a sure-fire way to get rid of some mongols (or turks).|
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