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The "wicked and evil " Turks-1453

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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The "wicked and evil " Turks-1453
    Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 15:38

 Typical Venetians indeed, never has there been such a group of greedy, backstabbing people like the Venetians, much of what makes Venice, is stolen or bought with other peoples gold.

 I have nothing but my contempt for the medieval venetians.

A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 16:03
isnt the tetrach statue stolen from istanbul in venice right now?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 17:38

There are turkish here, they can confirm that.

In Istanbul there is a quarteer named Galata. It was the genoese head quarteer in byzantine empire, from where they ruled the commerce, the emperor and the straits to black sea, that have been called "a genoese lake" with the installations of Caffa, Sevastopol, Trabzon, Azov, etc...

In Galata genoese built the "tower of the Christ" now known simply as tower of Galata. It have been the last bastion against ottoman soldiers and the general commisioned to defend the walls of costantinople was the genoese Giovanni Giustiniani.

In honor of genoese turkish wrote a commemorative tablet,  fixed up the tower.

The reticence of venetians was a revenge against their etern enemy genoese, that in 1261 subtracted them the control of the byzantine empire withe the treaty of Nympheum. Genoese colonies (specially Chios) in Aegean isles carry on untill XVII century.

Glata Tower today

galata tower today

  1. Costaninople and Galata, with the tower on the left http://faculty.washington.edu/selims/Matrakci.htm
  2. The turkish insription: <29 MAYS /(1453)/ SALI SABAHI / CENEVIZLERIN / GALATA / KOLONISI /ANAHTARLARINI / FATIH SULTAN /MEHMED' E /TAKDIM ETMIS / VE GALATININ / TESLIMI /I HAZIRAN CUMA / GUNU TAMAM /LAN MISIDIR>


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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 19:20
Originally posted by ill_teknique

isnt the tetrach statue stolen from istanbul in venice right now?


Yup, one of the many things the Venetians looted in 1204. The four horses of St.Marks Cathedral used to stand in the Hippodrome of Constantinople.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 20:48

The horses are now on the top of St Marc Cathedral in Venice.

http://members.aol.com/eokamoto31/sanmarco.htm

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  Quote gerik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 11:16
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

Ibrahim Mteferrika

Mntefering?  



Actually we don't know the real name of  Ibrahim Mteferrika,this name is
his chosen name after being converted to islam.  He  set  up his printing  facility  in a part of  Istanbul named Madsar Mehalle  (hungarian outskirt or hungarian part of town).
What we know for sure is what he sais in Risale-i Islamije:

I, a pure and modest servant, I was born in Hungary, in the town of
Kolozsvr.

 In the time of 
of  Ibrahim Mteferrika, especially  after  the revolution of Rkoczi II was defeated by the austrians many hungarians emigrated to Turkey (especially hungarian unitarians ), even Rkoczi II spent his exile in Tekirdag until his dead in 1735.
From 1718
Ibrahim Mteferrika was the tranlater and  secretary in turkish
affairs of Rkoczi II.
Ibrahim Mteferrika is believed to be originally a hungarian unitarian.
In his time many hungarian unitarians were living in Turkey .
Unitarian faith believes only in one god and denies the holy trinity.
It is supposed that's why he converted so easily to islam.
Unitarianism in Europe is the religion only of hungarians and the majority
of unitarians are living in Transylvania. In Transylvania only hungarians are
of unitarian faith and this is true also for the calvinist faith. (The other name of Calvinist faith  is the Reformed ).
The literature on Ibrahim Mteferrika (including turkish one) holds that he was originally a hungarian unitarian.

In german on Mteferrika :
http://www.literaturca.de/html/muteferrika.html
In hungarian:
members.iif.hu/visontay/ponticulus/limes/muteferrika.html
In turkish
http://www.kimkimdir.gen.tr/kimkimdir.php?id=206
In english:
http://terebess.hu/english/orient.html
http://www.masterliness.com/a/Ibrahim.Muteferrika.htm

www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/I/Ib/Ibrahim_Muteferr ika.htm

There is an interesting article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/ chap1/whatwentwrong.htm
Here comes up also Mteferrika.

Another famous convert was a Hungarian seminarist, probably Unitarian, known in Turkish annals as Ibrahim Mteferrika. Ibrahim's original family name is unknown; Mteferrika is a title, indicating membership of a kind of elite guard corps attached to the sultan's person.




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  Quote gerik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 12:53
Originally posted by Richard XIII

Originally posted by Raider

Originally posted by Richard XIII


In Romania we claim that he was romanian
How typical Romanian for the Romanian, Hungarian for the Hungarian, german for the others.


Let's see was an EU citizen or a future one.


Actiually the name Orbn is a hungarian name.
Like Orb
n Balzs , Orbn Viktor (the former prime minister of hungary).
Orb
n Balzs was szekler (szkely) hungarian writer, scientist in the 19th century, who gave a vivid description of the szeklers land.
As I know Urban (Urb
n maybe just a dialectal variation of the name Orbn ) of cannons was a szekler hungarian. The szeklers land is in Transylvania.

Etymology of the name Orban/Urban:
http://andreorban.tripod.com/orbetym.html

Is it Urban/Orban  name  a  common  German  name?

By  the  way is it supposed that  szeklers (on of the hungarian tribe at conquest) are  of turkish origin.Also it is know fact that many hungarians have kun (cumman, also a turkish tribe) ancestors,especially the inhabitants of the Hungarian region Kiskuns
g.




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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 13:05
Originally posted by gerik



Is it Urban/Orban name a common German name?



It's not that terribly common, but not unusual either. The most famous bearer of the name was Adolf Urban, football player in the 30s for Germany and Germany's greatest team ever, FC Schalke O4, who won the championship no less than six times in that decade.

I've no idea, if Adolf Urban was a descendant of the famous Engineer Urban, but considering the might and velocity of his feared free-kicks, there might be a connection.



Ada Urban, Schalkes Kanone

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 13:16
Originally posted by gerik


Actiually the name Orbn is a hungarian name.


There is also a the possibily that Orban might be the Hungarian variation of the name Urban, that derived from the Latin noun "urbis", the town or city, and from the adjektiv "urbanus" , meaning, finully enough, urban.
Urban was and is a very common Christian name, notably that of no less than eight Popes.
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  Quote gerik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 13:30
To quote
http://andreorban.tripod.com/orbetym.html
the hungarian etymology is:


  • According to some sources, the Hungarian etymology is the same as the Belgian one: the Hungarian name Orbn is derived from the latin name urbanus. Initially, Urbanus became Urban, often written Vrban during the XVth and XVIth centuries: the name later evolved into Orban, and finally Orbn. Originally it was a Christian name (there is a St. Orbn) that later became a family name. Apparently, it is still used as a Christian name in Hungary, but this is now fairly rare.
  • For other sources, there is a truly Hungarian etymology to the name: Orbn is a combination of Or(r) and Ban. Ban is the Hungarian word for chieftain/headman (minor nobility), whereas Orr means nose. Does it mean that the Orbn's were noblemen with a big nose


By the way hungarians put the surname first and after that the christian name. The name Orbn is used mostly as family name.
So in english or german order
you put the names as Viktor Orbn,
Bal
zs Orbn,but in hungarian no.



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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 14:33
Originally posted by Komnenos

Originally posted by Menippos


LOL - and then the Germans complain about the invasion of Turkish immigrants in Germany...


Don't over-generalise, some Germans might complain about it, right-wing lunatics, xenophobes, the gutter press, the usual suspects, and there are some issues about integration and multi-cultural society,... but on the whole, we need each other and we know that.


*Edit - do not write in language other than english*


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  Quote LeftEyeNine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2005 at 10:31

Also it is know fact that many hungarians have kun (cumman, also a turkish tribe) ancestors,especially the inhabitants of the Hungarian region Kiskunsg.

Cumans are the only Turkic tribe with blonde / red hair. They have such a specialty.

By the way, you know that Indo-European languages have somehow a common root. And considering the fact that Greece and Hungary are geographically close, it is quite likely that Urban name could be used in both cultures, mutated in order to accomply with each languages phonetics, of course..

What's more, I hope I'm welcome. That's my first post here. I'm already informed a lot in one single topic.  


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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2005 at 19:57
Welcome, though if my intuition serves me Urban seems to have been more of a Latin name, seeing as it was so popular in the West. With the collapse of the West Roman Empire, names seem to have developed or been indepently alot in the East and West. We see the name Andronicus, for example, used early on in Rome yet only living on in Byzantium to the best of my knowledge.
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 03:44

Originally posted by Constantine XI

We see the name Andronicus, for example, used early on in Rome yet only living on in Byzantium to the best of my knowledge.

My aunt is called Andronice and her husband Lychimachus! (only I got to take this boring name)

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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 08:59
Wow, now that's continuity! I have a mono-syllable Anglo name which dates to the 19th century. After a party one day a Greek girl was with me and 6 friends and gave the equivilent of each of their names in Greek. Then it came to my turn and she just shrugged.
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  Quote merced12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2005 at 17:49

you speak same as hitler constaninopolis fall down istanbul rise

http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2005 at 18:25

Originally posted by gerik

Is it Urban/Orban  name  a  common  German  name?

more or less, when I was in the air-force, there was a master-sergeant named Urban...

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  Quote gerik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2005 at 13:50
Temujin are you really a cuban or just a fan of Che? 
What air-force were you in?

Cuba libre!


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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2005 at 15:40
Im just a Che supporter, I was in the Luftwaffe of course.
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  Quote violentjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 14:08
Originally posted by eaglecap

Good morning to all you evil and wicked Turks- 10:21 am Pacific standard time

Here is a quote from one of those evil and wicked Latins-

On the fith of May, the wicked and evil Turks went and place a great cannon on the top of the hill above Pera, and with these cannons they began to fire over Pera at our fleet, which lay by the boom.

I suppose it is all perspective on who is the wicked and evil one.

Constantinople the last bastion to an Islamic invasion but the western Europeans were too busy fighting each other to unite against this threat.

"Diary of the Seige of Constantinople" by Nicolo Barbaro



Actually it was treason in christian ranks that brought fall of Konstantinople.First to fall was Pera and Mletan quarters,and then Phanar district that surendered without shot being fired even before first Ottoman soldiers were to enter town on May 29 1453

Phanar surendered under condition that people be spared and orthodox churches in area,two from 11 century not be destroyed,.This was done and some thing in one of those churches head of Constantine XI Paleogolus lie.Not proven but could be true.And Catholic italian scontinued trading with those awfull Turks later on


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