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The "wicked and evil " Turks-1453

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Komnenos View Drop Down
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The "wicked and evil " Turks-1453
    Posted: 15-May-2006 at 02:03
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

Wasnt there a Spaniard mercenary at 1453 also fighting along side the Byzantine Emperor? I think I read about him as well



Indeed, Runciman mentions ( "The Fall of Constantinople") a company of Catalan soldiers under the command of Pere Julia, who were in charge of the defence on the shore near the Hippodrome.
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-May-2006 at 18:53
Wasnt there a Spaniard mercenary at 1453 also fighting along side the Byzantine Emperor? I think I read about him as well
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  Quote violentjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 18:10
Meant to say 1422
f**k didnt see and those numbers
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 17:57
Once the walls fell there was very little point in fighting any further. You may be able to hold your own when outnumbered nearly 20 to 1 on the walls of Constantinople, but in the open streets of the city you don't stand a chance. Once the walls fell, the most sensible thing for the citizens and soldiers to do was either to escape by sea or seek refuge in churches and hope for the best.
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  Quote violentjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 16:19
True but even without Konstantinple would fall,after 4 crusades it never recovered.And there were many sieges that went bad for Ottomans before 1532.There was 1422 siege by Murad not much success there,and even Rhumi tried to take the town in early stages of Islamic history,sadly he died near gates of Konstantinople then


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  Quote RomiosArktos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 15:25
Ok,you are right.It is true that some quarters surrendered without fighting but could they have done anything else? Since the Turks had got themselves into the city then the defense must have been pointless.
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  Quote violentjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 15:21
Maybe you should read a book or two
I didnt say city fell because of treason,but some quarters surendered without a fight
Maybe if you have read some more books,would know this


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  Quote RomiosArktos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 14:29
Originally posted by violentjack



Actually it was treason in christian ranks that brought fall of Konstantinople.First to fall was Pera and Mletan quarters,and then Phanar district that surendered without shot being fired even before first Ottoman soldiers were to enter town on May 29 1453



It is not true that the city fell because of treason.The city fell because of  many factors:
The defenders were outnumbered
The turks managed to blockade the port with their fleet and managed to get their ships in to the Golden Horn.So the city was surrounded from all sides
The turks had artillery and were doing great damage to the walls,so the few defenders had also the task to repair the walls every night.
Pope and Venice decided too late to send reeinforcements which of course never arrived
 
The Kerkoporta postern was not opened by any traitors.This small gate was used by the defenders in order to make flanking sorties against the turks.what happened at 29th May was that the flanking units under Brocchiardi brothers didn't manage to close the gate and the jannisaries passed through the open kerkoporta and took control of the walls over the gate of St.Romanus.When they had done this,the defense of the city was destined to break.At the same time there was an assault from the walls that looked to the sea.Emperor
Constantine XI must have fallen fighting at the gate of St.Romanus



Edited by RomiosArktos
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  Quote violentjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2006 at 14:08
Originally posted by eaglecap

Good morning to all you evil and wicked Turks- 10:21 am Pacific standard time

Here is a quote from one of those evil and wicked Latins-

On the fith of May, the wicked and evil Turks went and place a great cannon on the top of the hill above Pera, and with these cannons they began to fire over Pera at our fleet, which lay by the boom.

I suppose it is all perspective on who is the wicked and evil one.

Constantinople the last bastion to an Islamic invasion but the western Europeans were too busy fighting each other to unite against this threat.

"Diary of the Seige of Constantinople" by Nicolo Barbaro



Actually it was treason in christian ranks that brought fall of Konstantinople.First to fall was Pera and Mletan quarters,and then Phanar district that surendered without shot being fired even before first Ottoman soldiers were to enter town on May 29 1453

Phanar surendered under condition that people be spared and orthodox churches in area,two from 11 century not be destroyed,.This was done and some thing in one of those churches head of Constantine XI Paleogolus lie.Not proven but could be true.And Catholic italian scontinued trading with those awfull Turks later on


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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2005 at 15:40
Im just a Che supporter, I was in the Luftwaffe of course.
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  Quote gerik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Sep-2005 at 13:50
Temujin are you really a cuban or just a fan of Che? 
What air-force were you in?

Cuba libre!


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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2005 at 18:25

Originally posted by gerik

Is it Urban/Orban  name  a  common  German  name?

more or less, when I was in the air-force, there was a master-sergeant named Urban...

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  Quote merced12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Sep-2005 at 17:49

you speak same as hitler constaninopolis fall down istanbul rise

http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 08:59
Wow, now that's continuity! I have a mono-syllable Anglo name which dates to the 19th century. After a party one day a Greek girl was with me and 6 friends and gave the equivilent of each of their names in Greek. Then it came to my turn and she just shrugged.
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 03:44

Originally posted by Constantine XI

We see the name Andronicus, for example, used early on in Rome yet only living on in Byzantium to the best of my knowledge.

My aunt is called Andronice and her husband Lychimachus! (only I got to take this boring name)

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Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2005 at 19:57
Welcome, though if my intuition serves me Urban seems to have been more of a Latin name, seeing as it was so popular in the West. With the collapse of the West Roman Empire, names seem to have developed or been indepently alot in the East and West. We see the name Andronicus, for example, used early on in Rome yet only living on in Byzantium to the best of my knowledge.
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  Quote LeftEyeNine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Sep-2005 at 10:31

Also it is know fact that many hungarians have kun (cumman, also a turkish tribe) ancestors,especially the inhabitants of the Hungarian region Kiskunsg.

Cumans are the only Turkic tribe with blonde / red hair. They have such a specialty.

By the way, you know that Indo-European languages have somehow a common root. And considering the fact that Greece and Hungary are geographically close, it is quite likely that Urban name could be used in both cultures, mutated in order to accomply with each languages phonetics, of course..

What's more, I hope I'm welcome. That's my first post here. I'm already informed a lot in one single topic.  


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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 14:33
Originally posted by Komnenos

Originally posted by Menippos


LOL - and then the Germans complain about the invasion of Turkish immigrants in Germany...


Don't over-generalise, some Germans might complain about it, right-wing lunatics, xenophobes, the gutter press, the usual suspects, and there are some issues about integration and multi-cultural society,... but on the whole, we need each other and we know that.


*Edit - do not write in language other than english*


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  Quote gerik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 13:30
To quote
http://andreorban.tripod.com/orbetym.html
the hungarian etymology is:


  • According to some sources, the Hungarian etymology is the same as the Belgian one: the Hungarian name Orbn is derived from the latin name urbanus. Initially, Urbanus became Urban, often written Vrban during the XVth and XVIth centuries: the name later evolved into Orban, and finally Orbn. Originally it was a Christian name (there is a St. Orbn) that later became a family name. Apparently, it is still used as a Christian name in Hungary, but this is now fairly rare.
  • For other sources, there is a truly Hungarian etymology to the name: Orbn is a combination of Or(r) and Ban. Ban is the Hungarian word for chieftain/headman (minor nobility), whereas Orr means nose. Does it mean that the Orbn's were noblemen with a big nose


By the way hungarians put the surname first and after that the christian name. The name Orbn is used mostly as family name.
So in english or german order
you put the names as Viktor Orbn,
Bal
zs Orbn,but in hungarian no.



Edited by gerik
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 13:16
Originally posted by gerik


Actiually the name Orbn is a hungarian name.


There is also a the possibily that Orban might be the Hungarian variation of the name Urban, that derived from the Latin noun "urbis", the town or city, and from the adjektiv "urbanus" , meaning, finully enough, urban.
Urban was and is a very common Christian name, notably that of no less than eight Popes.
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