Mark Antony

I was introduced to Marc Anthony through Shakespeare's Julius Caesar, which presented him as a very clever and perceptive person. The extremely well-know "Friends, Romans, and countrymen" speech is one of the most manipulative speeches I've known. It has very good literary merit, too--of course, it does (what with Shakespeare being the author)

Originally posted by okamido Originally posted by Delenda est Roma Of course. I simply prefer those with miliatry and governing talents. With Antonius, all one has is his meager military attributes, as his governing ability consisted of him spending the state's money in order to pay off his enormous debts.

I agree. And his failed Parthian incursion didn't help.

Originally posted by Don Quixote Who, Caesar or Antony? I think Octavian beats them in this with his hands down.

Oh, I don't argue about that. My poins is that as a human being Antony was a better man than Octavian. I'm talking about his character, not about his administrative or miltary achievement.

He lost, yes, but he lost nobly; Otavian won on the price of hunting down aand killing the son of the person-he-swore-by, by tking ot his associates one by one, and by humiliating whoever he left alive - and I cannot swallow that. I'd rather have the confused, emotional, spontaneous, making-bad-desicions, but nobler Antony than him.

Which, of course, is only my opinion. As you probably noticed, I'm more interested in the character of people, and of their reactions to life, than in their military prowess. Which doesn't mean than anyone has to agree with me - this is my lane, not anyone else's.


Edited by Don Quixote - 07-Sep-2012 at 06:38

Who, Caesar or Antony? I think Octavian beats them in this with his hands down.

Oh, come on, who wss not having mistresses then or now, how can this be a negative?. At least none off them were pressing women in actual or psychological rapes. Bribes were such a normal part of ancient Roman life that I cannot see them as much of a corruption.Whoever was not taking bribes was killing outright, I'd think this is far worse.

Originally posted by Delenda est Roma Actually he was practically on Caesar's level as I've shown. They were both corrupt, used armed force against the Senate and numerous other things.

Well, this sound to me rather like a compliment, to be on Caesar's level. Only I think that Caesar had less excuse to pass the Rubicon than Antony to go independent. Octavian was singling him out, so there wasn't much other choice.
As foor the coruption - what exactly do you mean?

Actually he was practically on Caesar's level as I've shown. They were both corrupt, used armed force against the Senate and numerous other things.

Conflict soon arose, and, as on other occasions, Antony resorted to violence. Hundreds of citizens were killed and Rome itself descended into a state of anarchy. Caesar was most displeased with the whole affair and removed Antony from all political responsibilities. The two men did not see each other for two years. The estrangement was not of long continuance, with Antony meeting the dictator at Narbo (45 BC) and rejecting the suggestion of Trebonius that he should join in the conspiracy that was already afoot. Reconciliation arrived in 44 BC, when Antony was chosen as partner for Caesar's fifth consulship.

He killed quite a few people here and supported Caesar.

Antony, left as sole Consul, surrounded himself with a bodyguard of Caesar's veterans and forced the senate to transfer to him the province of Cisalpine Gaul, which was then administered by Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus, one of the conspirators. Brutus refused to surrender the province and Antony set out to attack him in the beginning of 43 BC, besieging him at Mutina.

Used troops to force the senates decision.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Antony#section_1

Again with Egyptian money, Antony invaded Armenia, this time successfully. In the return, a mock Roman Triumph was celebrated in the streets of Alexandria. The parade through the city was a pastiche of Rome's most important military celebration. For the finale, the whole city was summoned to hear a very important political statement. Surrounded by Cleopatra and her children, Antony ended his alliance with Octavian.

He distributed kingdoms between his children: Alexander Helios was named king of Armenia, Media and Parthia (which were never conquered by Rome), his twin Selene got Cyrenaica and Libya, and the young Ptolemy Philadelphus was awarded Syria and Cilicia. As for Cleopatra, she was proclaimed Queen of Kings and Queen of Egypt, to rule with Caesarion (Ptolemy XV Caesar, son of Cleopatra by Julius Caesar), King of Kings and King of Egypt. Most important of all, Caesarion was declared legitimate son and heir of Caesar. These proclamations were known as the Donations of Alexandria and caused a fatal breach in Antony's relations with Rome.

He played his own part in starting the war.




Edited by Delenda est Roma - 02-Sep-2012 at 13:05

Even if you like someone they have faults :p. anyway he still revolted and started a civil war.