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Delenda est Roma
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Topic: Chinghizkhaan-Pros and Con Posted: 18-Aug-2012 at 09:57 |
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Vlad killed enemies of the state. People convicted in trial or by him of crimes and the Ottoman war prisoners. He didn't kill everyone, please be objective here. Whatever you may think Vlad was not a mass murderer but a general and politician defending his homeland. The Ottomans invaded his realm the nobles he killed comitted treason. Hoe is that genocide? That is the worst worse of the word and is derogatory to any people who have been exposed to a genocide.
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A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.
C. S. Lewis
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 18-Aug-2012 at 11:13 |
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ok how then is what Genighis was doing genocide? He was onlly killing enemies. Vlad impaled the villlagers of one of his villages on polls so he scare the Turks away. What was that, loving them? And I never said that Vlad was mass-murderer.
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"...And Death Shall Have no Dominion..." Dylan Thomas
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Delenda est Roma
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Posted: 18-Aug-2012 at 11:59 |
Evidence for him murdering one of his own villages? Thats undoubtedly false and merely propaganda. You have to dig deeper and distinguish between fact and fiction. I don't know alot abough Temujin so I haven't breathed a word on his conduct.
Vlad III is revered as a hero in Bulgaria as well for his protection to Bulgarian population both south and north of the Danube. A significant number of Bulgarian common folk and remaining boyars (nobles) moved north of the Danube, recognized his leadership and become part of Wallachia, following his raids on the Ottomans. [3]
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler#section_6
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A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.
C. S. Lewis
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 18-Aug-2012 at 14:42 |
Here some evidence: "..."He [the Sultan] marched on for
about five kilometers when he saw his men impaled; the Sultan's army
came across a field with stakes, about three kilometers long and one
kilometer wide. And there were large stakes on which they could see the
impaled bodies of men, women, and children, about twenty thousand of
them, as they said; quite a spectacle for the Turks and the Sultan
himself! The Sultan, in wonder, kept saying that he could not conquer
the country of a man who could do such terrible and unnatural things,
and put his power and his subjects to such use. He also used to say
that this man who did such things would be worthy of more. And the
other Turks, seeing so many people impaled, were scared out of their
wits. There were babies clinging to their mothers on the stakes, and
birds had made nests in their breasts."..." http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/vlad.htmlSo what? Ghengis s reffered as a hero among the Mongols. My point is that killing people has been such a wide practice in human history, so to say that Genghis, or Vlad, were genociders, is to take them out of their historical time and culture. My point here is not that Vlad is genocider, but that Genghis is not; that none of them we can jufge in own own standards, because they lived in different times with different mores.
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"...And Death Shall Have no Dominion..." Dylan Thomas
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Delenda est Roma
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Posted: 18-Aug-2012 at 15:08 |
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I'm sorry but your source is worse than Wiki and obviously wrong. Why would he kill 20,000 tax paying citizens? He wouldn't the people didn't love him for nothing he protected them. This is propaganda by Corvinus and German and other authors who trie and suceeded in demonizing Vlad. Do we have any historical evidence besides the defamatory pamphlets?
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A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.
C. S. Lewis
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 18-Aug-2012 at 15:12 |
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I don't know, mate, this is what I dug up from the net. I agree that it may be over-done, but such a story cannot be conjured just from thin air - the numbers may be plumbed up, but not the case as a whole. Again, my point is not that Vlad is genocider, I gave him as an example as the times and in defence of Genghis.
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"...And Death Shall Have no Dominion..." Dylan Thomas
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Delenda est Roma
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Posted: 18-Aug-2012 at 15:26 |
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Actually it seems that stories could be straight up. Vlad probably impaled Ottomans and condemned criminals. While demonizing him the authors decided to incorporate this grisly and almost certainly false story in. There isn't any evidence for it and it would be a stupid move for a very smart man beloved by the people.
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A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.
C. S. Lewis
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