Dating first use of Onager(siege weapon)

Hi all,

           Although I searched many books and quite a lot in net, it seems the only source mentions onager is Ammianus Marcellinus who recorded history of Rome between 96 to 378 AD. Authorities claims this weapon is started to use while Roman empire is declining as a result of loss of  complex siege weapon technologies that are mastered earlier. Thus, it is considered this weapon first used after AD.

However, I found one source is claiming onager is mentioned by Philon around 200 BC and again in the second century AD by Apollodorus of Damascus, it was not described in any detail until the fourth century.

Is there any other source that points out exact date when onager came to scene of siege warfare? Is it probable that Romans used onagers during Punic wars?

Thanks in advance.

If memory serves correct research Marcus Vitruvius Pollio.

As far as I know Vitruvius in his books covers two-arm torsion engines called ballistas. There is no account of one-armed torsion weapon, onager in his work.

I tried to search about  Philon of Byzantium and quickly found some sources mentions one-armed catapult.

First, this site.  It gives names of three writers as I mention above post and surprisingly gives exact dates about usage of onager. Writer's claim about why onager is so hard to find in historical accounts is to prevent others from copying it but it is funny I think. Since all other roman engines are very well described without concerning probability of stealing. I am not sure if all this such certain or this site is reliable.

Later, I found a google book by Alan Wilkins's book Roman Artillery. Although it does not mentions some certain dating it gives similar information with above site.

The most clear description is given Ammianus Marcellinus but it is much later thus this lack of clear information creates an illusion of that onager is a late invention.

It is becoming confusing.

Thanks so much, while eagerly waiting for answer I will continue to dig deep into net. :)

Well then I bow to superior research. which is not easy by inclination and fuced up knees....

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 16-Aug-2012 at 19:16

According to Alan Wilkins's book, Roman artillery onager is first mentioned by Philon in 200 BC in passage on defneding a city under siege; "You must try smash through the roofs of the siege-sheds by releasing very large stones from machines and projecting beams, and by shooting from above by one-talent and one-arm stone throwers." Philon, Poliorketika, 91, 33-8

Writer's claim is one-talent is a famous large scale ballista capable of releasing one-talent stones and one-arm is the later called onager. Philon describes how to use them in concert. Yet, this is only source mentioning it until second century AD Apollodorus, emperor Trajan's engineer, gives information about it.

It is really interesting how so few information about such a weapon exists. While other engines are documented to bits and worked to find a universal law about them, onagers seems to be neglected which is odd.

This lack of information causes even the authorities and modelers think different and eventually reconstructions also differs.

In conclusion, we have just one source for BC onagers which is a bit vague and other sources points out AD as time frame.

Originally posted by Excellence According to Alan Wilkins's book, Roman artillery onager is first mentioned by Felon in 200 BC in passage on defending a city under siege; "You must try smash through the roofs of the siege-sheds by releasing very large stones from machines and projecting beams, and by shooting from above by one-talent and one-arm stone throwers." Philon, Poliorketika, 91, 33-8 Writer's claim is one-talent is a famous large scale ballista capable of releasing one-talent stones and one-arm is the later called onager. Philon describes how to use them in concert. Yet, this is only source mentioning it until second century AD Apollodorus, emperor Trajan's engineer, gives information about it. It is really interesting how so few information about such a weapon exists. While other engines are documented to bits and worked to find a universal law about them, onagers seems to be neglected which is odd. This lack of information causes even the authorities and modelers think different and eventually reconstructions also differs. In conclusion, we have just one source for BC onagers which is a bit vague and other sources points out AD as time frame.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 18-Aug-2012 at 02:29

Reconstruction of a Roman onager

This might help as well.

And you might find this useful and or interesting as well.