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pekau View Drop Down
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cross,Crescent and Star
    Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 22:53
Originally posted by ihsan

But Jesus was also the main prophet of Christianity, he's believed to have delivered the words of the God.
 
Not so. Christianity has so many branches that slowly began to differentiate from one another. Jehovah's Witness is considered Christian due to their similar beliefs about God... but they reject the idea of Holy Trinity.
     
   
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 08:42
Reading these posts I wonder who is more against the Catholics: the Protestants, Islam, the atheists or even the other Catholics Big%20smile
 
By the way, forget about Christians, there are none but just Catholics and Protestants divided forever.
 
Common! Catholics are just humans like anyone else, and you find good, bad and ugly fellows between them like in any other group.
 
And if you are going to look for crimes like the Inquisition, it is worth to note that Protestants in Northern Europe killed a hundred times more people in theirs witch burnings that the Inquisition. Curious, isn't?
 
I'm not Catholic but agnostic. However, I feel a great respect form that religion. After all, anyone can visit theirs temples if they wish. The doors are always open, to enter or to leave.
 
And I was a great fan of John Paul II, a man that not only inspired me but that stop a war with our Argentinean "brothers". No kidding.
 
 
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Posts: 925 		  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 07:59
It's not religious persecution. It's really basic tenets of western civilization such as not carrying around weapons in public. And don't talk like the Arab world has no such thing as religious persecution. It happens. Often. The only ones really owning up to it just happen to be in the west, who are also trying to protect their cultures and traditions.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for religious tolerance everywhere in the world, but as it stands today, cultures tend to be drawn up on ethnic and religious lines, and the 'us vs. them' mentality is still prevalent, regardless of what globalization and homogenization are trying to acheive. It's a tribal world. Tribal sh*t happens sometimes.
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 20:31
Brian, protecting cultural heritage is not the same as religous persecution
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 10:28
Tubans and knives in schools?!!   that sounds like Sikhs not Muslims
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Posts: 925 		  Quote Brian J Checco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 15:07
BY that logic, what right do Muslims in France have to complain that the society they moved into is Secular and made illegal religious devices, such as Turbans? After all, France is French. And the French have had a secular government since around 1789.

Or German Muslims complaining that Muslim teachers aren't allowed to wear head scarves? After all, Germany has traditionally been Christian for the last 1000 years, and was even the Holy Roman Empire for about 800 of that.

In Minneapolis (I believe), Muslim cab-drivers are refusing to transport passengers who have consumed, or are carrying, alcohol.

British Muslims all calling for an overthrow of the Democratically Elected government in favor of Sha'riah law.

In Canada, certain Muslim organizations are protesting a new law forbidding the stoning of women, and the carrying of knives in schools.

Need I go on? Because I can, if anyone wants me to.


To quote Qutuz, with ammendations: "Either way, the vast majority of Europeans have been Christians for 1600 years. This is their culture, their civilization, their history and their life. Why should you try to enforce on the majority to comply to the minority? I just don't understand what you think gives you the right to dictate to us what we should consider as our heritage."
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Posts: 85 		  Quote Qutuz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 17:48
Either way, the vast majority of Middle Easterners (and surrounding reigions) have been Muslim for over 1400 years. This is their culture, their civilisation, their history and their life. Why should you try to enforce on the the majority to comply to the minority? I just don't understand what you think gives you the right to dictate to us what we should consider as our heritage.
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 14:00
This is not an Islamic forum.  Instead it is a Post Classical Middle Eastern Forum.
 
Cryptic, this thread started before the forums were changed, back when I wrote that the Post-Classical Middle Eastern Forum was called something like Islamic Empires Forum.
 
How much weight is accorded to the religous heritage of pagans in Islam?
 
Which is a shame since pre-Islamic Arabia had such a rich cultural heritage.
 
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 14:35
Originally posted by Qutuz


I don't think this is really fair to say. Which Islamicists are you referring to? 
I did not necessarily mean a literal belief that Islam is the sole religous idenity, but a belief in practice. 
 
I am referring to those Islamicists who define Trinitarian Christans as "pagan".   Defining Trinitarian Christians as "pagans" reduces the religous identity of the Middle East to Muslims, Jews (non zionist only?) and "Pagans".  How much weight is accorded to the religous heritage of pagans in Islam?
 
Though the full weight of this concern appears moot until the day the Caliphate is restored, the view implies that current Christian (pagan) religous heritage is meaningless.  A definition as of Christianity as meaningless is de facto stating that Islam is the sole religous heritage*.
      * Not counting numerically insignificant non zionist Jews or defining Iran as "Middle East" and including numerically insignificant Parsi population of Iran.
          
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 01-Nov-2006 at 15:37
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Posts: 85 		  Quote Qutuz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 01:18
My quote (actually it's paraphrased) is from Kenneth W. Harl, Professor of Byzantine History at Tulane University. Where he took it from, I don't know.
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 23:30
Originally posted by Qutuz's quote

It would be better to have the Turban of the Sultan over our city than the Banner of the Papacy. (Residents of Constantinople)

Interesting, I have the quote as,
"I would rather see the muslim turban in the midst of the City than the latin mitre" - Ducas (one of the Byzantine Emperor's Highest Officials"
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Posts: 85 		  Quote Qutuz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 23:21
Christianity predates Islam in the Middle East and there are millions of Arab Christians today


Not to mention the fact it was the birthplace of Christianity, and most of the issues regarding patriarch of alexandria etc. took place in the middle east also.

Some Islamacists may want to believe that the sole religous identity of the Middle East is Islam


I don't think this is really fair to say. Which Islamicists are you referring to? I am an ardent Islamicist, yet I don't believe the identity of the Middle East is only Islamic, it is certainly predominantly Islamic, but not solely.
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 17:26
Very good clarification Cryptic. The PCME forum covers the middle east from 600 to 1900ad. However, I wouldn't label members willing to discuss this history as solely 'Islamacists'.
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2006 at 10:27
 
Originally posted by Evildoer

It is a little too much to expect that the Crazy Network of Nazis will broadcast anything properly...
 
The confusion is understandable though.  Many of the Catholic, Coptic, and Orthodox leaders have many titles going back centuries.  They can use  different titles depending on the occassion and to whom they are speaking to. 
Originally posted by JanusRook

Does anyone else find it funny we're having a Christian discussion in the Islamic forum?
This is not an Islamic forum.  Instead it is a Post Classical Middle Eastern Forum.  Christianity predates Islam in the Middle East and there are millions of Arab Christians today.
 
Some Islamacists may want to believe that the sole religous identity of the Middle East is Islam, but this is simply not the caseWink.
 
 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 31-Oct-2006 at 10:36
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 08:14
that looks like a saivite answer
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Posts: 342 		  Quote ashokharsana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 02:36
Originally posted by John Doe

Quite simple data just in case some aliens wanna know what are our main religions, right?


what about hinduism and buddhism ?

Name: Hinduism (Sanatan Dharma)

Holy Leader: Shiva 

Holy Book: Sri Bhagvad Geeta

Symbol: Om Sign

Holy People&Symbols: Bramha, Vishnu, Siva
 
Common Language of Literature: Sanskrit

 

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Posts: 957 		  Quote MengTzu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 16:28

Hey all,

    There are actually other self-proclaimed popes.  There are a number of schimatic churches that splintered off the Catholic Church because they think that the Vatican II had changed the Mass (it's kind of a complicating issue.)

    Tobodai: I don't think we should mix oranges and apples here.  Corrupt popes are one thing; Biblical interpretation is another.  You can accuse just about anyone for distorting the Bible to support an agenda, whether those who are for the Papacy or against it.

    I've participated in religious debates for five years.  The extent to which you guys discussed, for example, Matthew 18 is barely scratching the surface.  I don't think this board can render the topic enough justice.

Peace,

Michael

10-8-2004
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Posts: 434 		  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2004 at 08:05

It is a little too much to expect that the Crazy Network of Nazis will broadcast anything properly...

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Posts: 85 		  Quote Ptolemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 18:43
Definately. It is especially confusing when CNN claimed the 'patriarch of Alexandria died' not really knowing who they were talking about.
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 16:26
Oh ok sorry I was a bit confused. So both Patriarchs of Alexandria call themselves popes? That must be a little confusing.
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