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Was Hannibal a genius?

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  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was Hannibal a genius?
    Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 18:36
As I forget which commander said, "Strategy Is For Amateurs, Logistics Is For Professionals" Hannibals was most definately a professional.
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 17:37
I thank you kindly :)
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 17:15
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Zama was a stalemate from each man's actions cancelling out the other. It then devolved into a proverbial slogging match as you know :). Scipio actually was thinking more of himself in not besieging the city. Besides that he pretended to be earnestly negotiating then attacked Syphax and Hanno's camps in bad faith. Scipio's reluctance to besiege Carthage was the fact he might not have been able to take it. He had a small navy at the time and his siege of Utica took over a year. To take Carthage he would've needed a much larger army and navy. He recognized he wouldn't be able to take it and so instead of wasting his proconsulship on it and risking being replaced he concentrated and making Carthage accept terms so he could assure he took credit and received a triumph.
 
 
 
''There will always be aficionados of 'this or that' general, campaign and tactics and diplomatic intrigue etc''
 
 
 
You just made my point...you were not the first nor will you be the last.Wink
 
 
But Ole unkie Centrix likes to give credit where credit is due. And so for the exuberance and passion for the subject matter and history at large you have displayed. And especially as a new member..... you get a commendation.
 
 
 
Which is only slightly a lesser an accolade then getting to drink tiswin with me out on the high and lonesome lonely. For that you must do much, much more work.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 17:06
Zama was a stalemate from each man'd actions cancelling out the other. It then devolved into a proverbial slogging match as you know :). Scipio actually was thinking more of himself in not besieging the city. Besides that he pretended to be earnestly negotiating then attacked Syphax and Hanno's camps in bad faith. Scipio's relectuance to besiege Carthage was the fact he might not have been able to take it. He had a small navy at the time and his siege of Utica took over a year. To take Carthage he would've needed a much larger army and navy. He recognized he wouldn't be able to take it and so instead of wasting his procounsulship on it and risking being replaced he concentrted and making Carthage accept terms so he could assure he took credit and received a triumph.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 16:57
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Oh don't doubt Hannibal's haters. I have met numerous people who argue Hannibal was merely competent if that. They much prefer Scipio. Anyway, at Trasimene Hannibal hid his whole army from Flaminius. Most of Hannibal's victories were total with few survivors and he used cavalry decisively. He used his diverse army to its strengths and so achieved victory.
 
 
 
 
 
I have been studying this stuff for over 40 years...I doubt nothing. There will always be aficionados of 'this or that' general, campaign and tactics and diplomatic intrigue etc....it's why I avoid threads dealing with the 'best'. The key is to remain objective in the analysis of all the combatants within the context of the era. And more importantly how they....the governments and leaders of armies viewed warfare in the era. And its contextual usage as a means of enhancing a nation states development, security and expansion and personal ambitions.
 
 
I had taught this stuff (now retired) in uniform and out, on the platform of higher academia and in the woodlands and mountains and deserts for 23 years. To include the arena of combat operations. To compare Scipio's brilliance in context with Hannibal's is to do a disservice to both. They were both brilliant. As exampled by that tremendous fight at Zama..stroke...counterstroke....chess like yet unorthodox. Or Scipio's campaign in Hispania. Yet tactics does not tell the tale alone..Scipio's greatness was further magnified by his unwillingness to raze the city, subjugate the populace and continue negotiations. Hannibal's... in his later exile, military ops and eventually suicide...perhaps to avoid further confrontation spurned on by his Roman foes who could not forgive him. Nor ever trust him.
 
 
In the end, both of them were and remain classic examples of the old styled 'battle captains' of the past. Both master practitioners of the tradecraft-systems and tactics they were taught.  And to do it objectively and effectively will require more then just a cursory effort on a history chat forum.
 
 
 
Besides it's already been done.
 
 
 
 
 
 
And I have tiswin cooking.
 
 
 
And even greats such as Hannibal and Scipio must stand down for that.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 16:07
Oh don't doubt Hannibal's haters. I have met numerous people who argue Hannibal was merely compotent if that. They much prefer Scipio. Anyway, at Trasimene Hannibal hid his whole army from Flaminius. Most of Hannibal's victories were total with few survivors and he used cavalry decisively. He used his diverse army to its strengths and so achieved victory.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 16:03
If he can still be referred to for study of his campaigns and tactics; by institutions as redoubtable as Sandhurst..WestPoint..VMI..The Citadel..Anapolis..Norwich..Saint Cyr..CGSC and the US Army War College...then the answer remains obvious.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 16:02
Well, no need to pretend I understand more than I doDead...
Cannae though seems like was fully controlled by Hanibal, even to the proverbial dust.
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 15:44
Alas I too can't be fully objective. He is by far my favorite person in history. On another note, how can one deny his genius? Simply mentioning Cannae or Trasimene should remedy that.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 15:38
I fiind him very creative in a military way, almost romantic. In my book this is enough to qualify as a military genius. I have a weak spot for him though, so I don't know how objective I can beDead
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  Quote Delenda est Roma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2012 at 15:33
Hannibal one of the greatest generals of all time though he was also an admiral. Does he qualify as a military genius? He had numerous crushing defeats over the Romans, Spaniards, Celts, and Pergamon. He won naval and land battles and never stopped fighting. His tactical masterpiece Cannae is one of the best tactical battles ever. Trasimen and Trebia are also model battles. His lesser none battles like Herdonia or Tagus River were also impressive. He wasnt deficient at siege warfare either taking, Acerrae, Tarentum, Saguntum, and numerous other cities. He crossed the Alps under attack by Celtic tribes a truly spectacular feat. His strategy of detaching Roman allies was working. The Etruria was unrestful, he took all of Bruttium, most of Magna Graecia, Tarentum and Capua plus all but one of the Samnite tribes went over to him. Rome was in dire straits having to reduce their coinage weight and lower the standards for military recruitment. 12 Latin conies could no longer send men or tribute. He fought the Rhodians in a naval battle and won Naval and land battles against Pergamon. His accomplishments are gigantic and can be extolled on for days. Do his accomplishments give him the title military genius? I of course say yes. What say you?
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