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George Washington

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TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: George Washington
    Posted: 04-Aug-2012 at 05:04
What is your impression of George Washington as a political leader and as a man.

Photo of George Washington

George Washington

On April 30, 1789, George Washington, standing on the balcony of Federal Hall on Wall Street in New York, took his oath of office as the first President of the United States. "As the first of every thing, in our situation will serve to establish a Precedent," he wrote James Madison, "it is devoutly wished on my part, that these precedents may be fixed on true principles."

Born in 1732 into a Virginia planter family, he learned the morals, manners, and body of knowledge requisite for an 18th century Virginia gentleman.

He pursued two intertwined interests: military arts and western expansion. At 16 he helped survey Shenandoah lands for Thomas, Lord Fairfax. Commissioned a lieutenant colonel in 1754, he fought the first skirmishes of what grew into the French and Indian War. The next year, as an aide to Gen. Edward Braddock, he escaped injury although four bullets ripped his coat and two horses were shot from under him.

From 1759 to the outbreak of the American Revolution, Washington managed his lands around Mount Vernon and served in the Virginia House of Burgesses. Married to a widow, Martha Dandridge Custis, he devoted himself to a busy and happy life. But like his fellow planters, Washington felt himself exploited by British merchants and hampered by British regulations. As the quarrel with the mother country grew acute, he moderately but firmly voiced his resistance to the restrictions.

When the Second Continental Congress assembled in Philadelphia in May 1775, Washington, one of the Virginia delegates, was elected Commander in Chief of the Continental Army. On July 3, 1775, at Cambridge, Massachusetts, he took command of his ill-trained troops and embarked upon a war that was to last six grueling years.

He realized early that the best strategy was to harass the British. He reported to Congress, "we should on all Occasions avoid a general Action, or put anything to the Risque, unless compelled by a necessity, into which we ought never to be drawn." Ensuing battles saw him fall back slowly, then strike unexpectedly. Finally in 1781 with the aid of French allies--he forced the surrender of Cornwallis at Yorktown.

Washington longed to retire to his fields at Mount Vernon. But he soon realized that the Nation under its Articles of Confederation was not functioning well, so he became a prime mover in the steps leading to the Constitutional Convention at Philadelphia in 1787. When the new Constitution was ratified, the Electoral College unanimously elected Washington President.

He did not infringe upon the policy making powers that he felt the Constitution gave Congress. But the determination of foreign policy became preponderantly a Presidential concern. When the French Revolution led to a major war between France and England, Washington refused to accept entirely the recommendations of either his Secretary of State Thomas Jefferson, who was pro-French, or his Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton, who was pro-British. Rather, he insisted upon a neutral course until the United States could grow stronger.

To his disappointment, two parties were developing by the end of his first term. Wearied of politics, feeling old, he retired at the end of his second. In his Farewell Address, he urged his countrymen to forswear excessive party spirit and geographical distinctions. In foreign affairs, he warned against long-term alliances.

Washington enjoyed less than three years of retirement at Mount Vernon, for he died of a throat infection December 14, 1799. For months the Nation mourned him.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/georgewashington

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Aug-2012 at 14:09
A great enough man for his time. His exploits and ambitions and character resounds with enough examples to say that at best, as a man and politician, he was complicated. A product of his time and class and enlightenment background. I am a very old advocate of the Freeman version of the man's service. Otoh there have been innumerable bios by such as Flexner, Chernow, Bell, Ellis and Higginbotham to make one pause for reevaluation.
 
He was my first CIC; not just as a General officer but as a President. Therefor I am compelled to remember what he was asked to do and did in support of the birth of my nation. Not because he was a necessarily very good soldier in all contextual respects...but because  of his steadfastness and dedicated commitment to his cause. And because of the reverence and loyalty he inspired in others about him to the same.
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  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2012 at 08:02
I don't know how great he was, but he did a job that needed to be done, and no one else got to do.
Washington was good is sirvival - whoever outlives, wins, it could be his motto or something. So, I suppose, he was the right person for the time.
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2012 at 12:57
For future study, and certainly valuable for beginners and layman, see the following references and sites on Washington.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote shine20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2012 at 21:59
The founding father of the United States.One of the greatest figure ever.I have a George Washington stamp, issued in 1910.

Edited by shine20 - 18-Dec-2012 at 22:05
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  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2012 at 22:53
I believe there are nine miracles attributed to him.

4 are
He was bullet proof
http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/George-Washington-Was-he-ARROW-and-BULLET-Proof-Uou-Decide.html

He made a supernatural fog
http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/George-Washington-Prays-God-sends-Supernatural-Fog-to-Allow-Escape.html

Like Jesus he created fishes to feed his follwers
http://www.ministers-best-friend.com/George-Washington-Prays-for-Food--Fish-clog-river-soon-after.html

There's even a christmas miracle
http://rjmoeller.com/2010/12/george-washington-and-a-christmas-miracle/


Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2012 at 06:54
He certainly is something of a mythical figure in US history.
Really have rewritten the history as victors.

But of course so do most nations, but perhaps NOT with such liberty Wink

Are the members that voted him as a great general really sure about that?
He lost ever battle until Saratoga didnt he? only won there due to massive French help. As with all the subsequent battles.

But its not an area i have much knowledge or interest. So i could be wrong.

Azita




Edited by Azita - 19-Dec-2012 at 06:57
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2012 at 17:48
Originally posted by Azita

He certainly is something of a mythical figure in US history.
Really have rewritten the history as victors.

But of course so do most nations, but perhaps NOT with such liberty Wink

Are the members that voted him as a great general really sure about that?
He lost ever battle until Saratoga didn't he? only won there due to massive French help. As with all the subsequent battles.

But its not an area i have much knowledge or interest. So i could be wrong.

Azita


 
Reference my first bold: that smacks of the losers whine and is subjective in any case.
 
My second: If they weren't they probably would not have designated him so.
 
My third: He didn't fight at Saratoga nor did the French assist him at Boston, Trenton or Princeton, the draw at Monmouth or...never mind. To go on would merely detract from my....
 
Fourth Bold: Your correct in both statements.
 
 
See: Weintraub; Iron Tears. Leckie; George Washington's War. Chernow; Washington a Life.
 
Flexner; ''Washington: The Indispensable Man''. Mc Cullough; ''1776''.
 
 
 
 
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Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 19-Dec-2012 at 17:49
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2012 at 20:29
Thats a wonderful response.

May ask where the majority of the rebels arms an ammunition came from, that were used in the battles?
I did bother to check ( yawn)  indeed Washington the great, did not fight at Saratoga, but 90% of the weapons that won that battle WERE supplied by the French.

May I ask how I am a loser in this ancient battle???

As for the other battles you list, i have no idea.

i do have a vague understanding of 60% French troops at Yorktown and 100% French naval blockade.

Surely the "great" general of the American rebellion war was Jean-Baptiste de Rochambeau?

again a wonderful response thank you
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2012 at 21:40
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

Originally posted by Azita

He certainly is something of a mythical figure in US history.
Really have rewritten the history as victors.

But of course so do most nations, but perhaps NOT with such liberty Wink

Are the members that voted him as a great general really sure about that?
He lost ever battle until Saratoga didn't he? only won there due to massive French help. As with all the subsequent battles.

But its not an area i have much knowledge or interest. So i could be wrong.

Azita


 
Reference my first bold: that smacks of the losers whine and is subjective in any case.
 
My second: If they weren't they probably would not have designated him so.
 
My third: He didn't fight at Saratoga nor did the French assist him at Boston, Trenton or Princeton, the draw at Monmouth or...never mind. To go on would merely detract from my....
 
Fourth Bold: Your correct in both statements.
 
 
See: Weintraub; Iron Tears. Leckie; George Washington's War. Chernow; Washington a Life.
 
Flexner; ''Washington: The Indispensable Man''. Mccullough; ''1776''.
 
 
 
 
Hqs in the Field
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Vic: Clifton, AZ.
 
 
 
That's a wonderful response.

May ask where the majority of the rebels arms an ammunition came from, that were used in the battles?
I did bother to check ( yawn) indeed Washington the great, did not fight at Saratoga, but 90% of the weapons that won that battle WERE supplied by the French.

May I ask how I am a loser in this ancient battle???

As for the other battles you list, i have no idea.

i do have a vague understanding of 60% French troops at Yorktown and 100% French naval blockade.

Surely the "great" general of the American rebellion war was Jean-Baptiste de Rochambeau?

again a wonderful response thank you
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Your welcome.
 
 
 
 
 
Your problem aside, from your dreadful lack of knowledge, reference Washington and the American Revolutionary War; is in your obvious continuing: dreadful lack of knowledge reference Washington and the American Revolutionary War.
 
 
 
 
 
Which your now attempting to strawman a defense from. Reread your post quoted above. Entirely incorrect. Not only was he not there....you also fail to address the logistical problems or solutions reference local rebel efforts-success; at production of weapons, gunpowder, salt peter, flintstone, naval stores etc.... long before the French-American alliance.  To include whether at Saratoga or prior. Or smuggling and privateering operations not to mention the assistance provide by the Spanish and the Dutch.
 
 
 
 
Your a loser in this general-discussion because of your inadequate attempts to research thoroughly enough to provide the topic an intelligent and informed opinion or comments. But that was obvious from your initial comment. And your rather cursory and disdainful, questioning remark as to whether others were qualified to rate him as great or were capable of making that determination. Because that is also a natural inference that can be attributed to it.
 
 
 
 
When obviously you were not.
 
 
 
 
 
 
I do not discount the assistance provided by the French...but there again your inadequate research doesn't even address the rationale or the ramifications of the Franco-American Alliance of 1778. Nor as noted does it address the efforts prior to it.
 
 
 
 
 
No. Instead you made a inadequate generalist (not uncommon for the unqualified amateur) and entirely unfounded assertion to the effect that French assistance to include, several competent French officers after 1777, were the sole qualifiers for American victory. No other inference is either logical or reasonably evident. Which is not only incorrect but without evidentiary support by mainstream academic research and scholarship. Not to mention qualify that the action at Saratoga was an American victory under American Generals in 77.
 
 
 
A year before the agreement cited above.
 
 
 
 
 
Nor do you address the contributions of other foreign officers after Saratoga and prior to Yorktown even given the Franco-American Alliance. And no... Rochambeau, as good and old a veteran soldier as he was, was not the savior of the American-British conflict. Examine the details of his and Washington's correspondence and memoirs and their joint actions under Washington's command from 6 July 80 onwards to the surrender at Yorktown. And you might also want to review the actions of Admiral Destouches while your at it.
 
 
Nor does your 'vague' recollection of the OOB at Yorktown due you any solace.
 
While correct in citing naval superiority of the French you are incorrect in your assessment of land forces.
 
French forces: 7800
American Militia: 3100
American Continental Regulars: 8000
 
You can confirm those figures on a number of sites or in the resources I addressed earlier. If you intend to do the adequate research necessary to address the subject of GW and, in specific his military campaigns during the conflict
 
But I doubt it.
 
Evidence?
 
Your initial statement.
 
 
''But its not an area i have much knowledge or interest. So i could be wrong.''
 
 
 
You still dont on both counts.
 
 
And in many of your initial assertions your were still wrong.
 
 
 
 
Your best bet?
 
 
 
Research.
 
 
 
Before inane and specious commentary.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 20-Dec-2012 at 03:36
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 05:49

QUOTE=Centrix Vigilis] Your problem aside, [/QUOTE]

 

Im flattered that you produce such a long post just for me.
Forgive me i shall not bother to read it, i detected a degree of indignation that will no doubt turn to a level of abuse.

 

I assure you I have no problem with the American rebellion, as i have little interest in it, i was simply trying to join in on the thread, clearly you resent this.

I shall be more selective in future

 Thank you for making me feel so welcome on your forum.

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Dec-2012 at 17:17
Originally posted by Azita

QUOTE=Centrix Vigilis] Your problem aside,

 

I'm flattered that you produce such a long post just for me.
Forgive me i shall not bother to read it, i detected a degree of indignation that will no doubt turn to a level of abuse.

 

I assure you I have no problem with the American rebellion, as i have little interest in it, i was simply trying to join in on the thread, clearly you resent this.

I shall be more selective in future

 Thank you for making me feel so welcome on your forum.

[/QUOTE]
 
 
Be wise.
 
And more research.
 
Till then. You appear more troller at this point-then contributor.
 
And that type is not welcome here as far as I am concerned.
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Windemere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2012 at 19:32
As far as I know, the first firearms manufacturing factory in the U.S.A. was established in 1777 in the town of Springfield, in western Massachusetts. The site was chosen by Henry Knox and George Washington, and it was meant to be a source of firearms and ammunition for the American Continental Army. It was located inland, far from any British military installations. And it was located close to the Connecticut River, which flowed up from Long Island Sound, but beyond a waterfall on the river, which precluded any large ships from approaching it.

 It's unknown for sure if it actually produced any firearms that were used in battle in the Revolutionary War, but by the 1780s it was in full production. Since it was first established only in 1777, it's difficult to believe that it was producing any firearms on a large-scale around that time. However, it was in full production by the 1780s.

It continued to produce firearms right up until the 1960s, when it was closed down as a factory, and converted into a firearms and historical museum.


Edited by Windemere - 25-Dec-2012 at 19:39
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2012 at 21:09
For additional info see the following. Ref yours above it was not...until it's reorganisation in 94. Ntl American private manufacturers in the form of gunsmiths/tradesmen were. Which was an invaluable resource coupled with foreign acquisitions, thru smuggling, confiscation, or purchase; especially in the initial stages of the conflict. Prior to direct French military stores aid or in the form of additional credits.
 
And as noted this clearly identifies the error in the assumption that French military aid and only French aid supported the conflict or was alone the primary cause of logistical success.
 
Patently absurd and factually incorrect.
 

 

http://www.jaegerkorps.org/NRA/American%20Made%20Muskets%20in%20the%20Revolutionary%20War.htm

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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Dec-2012 at 04:39
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

And as noted this clearly identifies the error in the assumption that French military aid and only French aid supported the conflict or was alone the primary cause of logistical success.
 
Patently absurd and factually incorrect.

Curiously 2 American government web sites have this to say:-

http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/georgewashington

 "Finally in 1781 with the aid of French allies--he forced the surrender of Cornwallis at Yorktown"

 http://history.state.gov/departmenthistory/short-history/foundations

 "Given the overwhelming strategic and military advantages of Great Britain, the United States could gain independence only if it attracted the support of Britain’s enemies, France and Spain."

Perhaps they need to be wise and do more research.


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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2012 at 00:11
Hmm in re: "Are the members that voted him as a great general really sure about that?
He lost ever battle until Saratoga didnt he? only won there due to massive French help. As with all the subsequent battles."

Well, he won the war. That would put him in the same league with Vo Nguyen Giap, He lost lots of battles too, but ended up the victor. And he too had massive help from outside (as did his opponents on the losing side). 
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  Quote Azita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2012 at 06:54
Originally posted by lirelou


Well, he won the war.

And yet as indicated above by  the US state department, it was the French that were the deciding factor, surely the main credit should go to Rochambeau and French logistics?

BTW i found i have these series of lectures:-
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=8588

The second lecture is quite informative, i suspect that is where i had formed my ideas on the subject ( yes i know i should cross reference, but as indicated it is of little interest to me)

Shame i cant post it here, its only 20mg, would make for interesting discussion




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  Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2012 at 00:17
Dear Azita, Moi, etant francophone et brevete para a Pau en 1986, j'aime l'Armee Francaise. Nevertheless, it occurs to me that without men to fire those muskets, rifles, and cannon, all French efforts at Yorktown would have amounted to a mere colonial kerfluffle. Keeping that mob of ingrates in the field was Washington's job, and he did it well enough that the British gave up the game and a new nation was born on this continent. And when offered the chance to replace George III, he turned it down. 

So, was Washington great? Yes he was. Does he rank among the 'great captains' of war? Hardly, but that wasn't what America needed at the time. It might be nicer of the majority of Americans remembered those French who fought and died in our cause, but same can be said of many Europeans in regards to our part in the 1939-45 unpleasantness. 

If I were going to look for an American institution that could give a professional evaluation on Washington's performance. I would look to any of the Armed Services War and Command and General Staff colleges. That is their bread and butter. If I wanted to seek an opinion on Ben Franklin's diplomatic capabilities, I might go to the State Department.


Edited by lirelou - 30-Dec-2012 at 00:22
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2012 at 06:49
BTW i found i have these series of lectures:-
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=8588
We might be in opposition reference the French commitment as the defining factor without being tied to those I have noted as well...but I will check your links. Thanks for them.
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  Quote LeopoldPhilippe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2015 at 19:51
The following are very powerful remarks uttered by George Washington at the First Continental Congress on May 14, 1787:    
If to please the people, we offer ourselves disapprove, how can we afterwards defend our work? Let us raise a standard to which the wise and the honest can repair. The event is in the hand of God.
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