Medieval Europe Stopping Mongols Speculation

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Originally posted by benzin

The mongols suffered huge casualties in many of their battles, against Moravia for example, but in some Polish and Hungarian battles they lost many thousand of people too. When they splitted up, they became defeatable. The main force lost sometime as well, even against the Volga Bulgarians.

As I mentioned they didnt invade or couldnt capture 160 fortified cities/castles only in Hungary. 

They didnt capture West Hungary wich is more montainous than the eastern part (they had the time for that but they didnt do it)

Also it was part of their tactics to capture the ruler of certain country. In case of Hungary, they chased Bela IV. for a year but couldnt capture him. They didnt move on until they capture him, they were standing here for a year.

I cant tell you exactly how much time it would take to conquer a country completely, but we can make a wild guess, because in the case of Hungary, it took more than a year, and they conquered only the half of it.

So in the case of whole europe I guess a 10 years time is quite possible.

Their tactics in europe would be very well known in this period of time, western europe has time to set up and leave other conflicts until this treat wich I truly think would overwrite all other among these nations.

I think they would end just like the Huns did. The situation is comparable, Europe was almost defenceless against the Hunnic army, but at the end they had to turn back, they lost too many men in their hundreds of battles. 

Bela the IV. denied to pay tax to the mongols after they left Hungary. He dared to do it because he seriously thought the mongols are defeatable only by Hungary itself. He knew exactly what kind of tactical mistakes his army made in the Muhi battle, and when he restabilized his power he gained contrel over huge forces were not available to him in 1241 (nobles, cuman force). (His army were the same size in the Muhi battle as the mongols)

I'm sorry, but it's really starting to seem as if you are insulting the Mongol conquest of Europe and Subotai's achievements, and their tactical and strategic skills.  

After defeating and annihilating the Russians with minimum casualties (casualties unknown, as it is so little), Subotai divided his army when invading Hungary, with 20,000 on the flanks to keep Poland distracted. 2 years before the invasion of Europe, he have sent numerous spies to Poland and Hungary, some sources even as far into Austria. In the battle of Legnica, the casualties of the Polish army (which consisted of several others in aid) was heavy, while the casualties of the Mongols was also unknown, this is the most important thing you must understand. In most of Subotai's battle in Europe, the casualties was unknown due to the fact that there was simply... so little. 

The reason for the extreme minimum casualties, is due to the fact that the Polish army failed for every tactical moves of the Mongols. In one battle, the Mongols have defeated the combined forces of Poland, German and the Czechs, with aid from the Pope and several nobilities. It is inaccurate to claim that the Mongols lost casualties up to thousands. They managed to cause confusion in the enemy army, they manage to separate the enemy army, they manage to route the separated enemy army easily, they successfully execute deception and blocked the enemy views with smoke screens, they surrounded certain parts of the separated enemy in seconds. If you study the battle, the combined defending forces of Poland did not know what was going on, they just got annihilated, myth of huge Mongol armies are false, as Mongols always know how to make the enemy seem like they appear from everywhere. I should also note that the Mongols defeated the army of Hungary and Poland within two days, the Hungarians pitch battles follow the same fate as the Polish pitch battles. 

The Mongols never captures the west because Ogedei Khan is dead. There are sources which suggests that Subotai have planned the invasion of the Holy Roman Empire. 

They didn't attempt to conquer Hungary, as you may know, however, they did devastated Hungary. The strategic plan devised by Subotai, was originally to invade, not to conquer, especially when there's much more opportunity to achieve in Song China, and the fact that European countries are poor.

After the Mongol retreat, I can assure you that mainland Europe did not care as much. When Austria begged for help, due to several Mongols raids, and the fact that they realized the deadly situation they are in. After the Mongol retreat, the main power of Europe, the Papacy and the Empire, acted as though nothing have happened, and Europe continued their conflicts with each other, similar to the Warring States in China. 

The Huns were not like the Mongols, the Mongols were much more professional. And by the time Mongols invaded Europe, Europe was actually in poverty, hence, the dark ages. 

I don't understand where you get the sources that Hungary have ever defeated Mongols army, except from repelling pretty raids. The Khan have died. You must know that Bale the IV have failed in every military resistance against the Mongols, the fact that the Mongols are leaving gave him confidence. 

Afterwards, the Mongols realized how Europe was just another poor collections of country, that is why they concentrated their full attention on Song China. 

Conquering the whole of Europe would require more then 10 years or 20 years, but being repelled? Huh, Subotai was never defeated in Europe, if he continued, all would have fall.