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baracuda
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Topic: Who where the Etruscans? Posted: 20-May-2005 at 14:14 |
1. Direct translation with irrelevent grammer changes..
Turk - Turk,
Oguz - Oguz,
begleri - beyleri,
esidin - isitin,
basmasar - basmasa,
telinmeser - delinmese
Ilinin - il = state in turkish,Ilinin - "your state" (above translation of millet is wrong)
that's 8/14 words of the original
2. translation via cutting the words up..
uzetenri - (uzeri,tanri) - uzerimizde tanri (translation above wrong 'yukarida gok')
asrayir - asra yir(asagi,yer)
kimartati - kim artati (kim,?atar...?arkasi)
thats another 3/14 words of the original
3. we are left with guessing only these words..
torunun - tor,unun .. sounds like tore (tre)..or torun'un- 'your grandchildren'
Budur - ? ..Bu means 'this' in modern turkish..
- although no 3. seems wrong....I don't know..
So "Oguzoglu" after seeing is it that difficult for you to translate???
What are these dialects?
Edited by baracuda
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Posted: 13-May-2005 at 12:56 |
Originally posted by baracuda
Thanks "Phallanx" it would be interesting to find some etrucan text and to sort of put it into readable latin form. Knowing that all altaic languages have similarities between them, whatever the time. example is the orkun writing above, apart from the fact how turkish has deviated with intruductions of grammer and words from persian and arabic,and how things have changed in the centuries, it isn't that difficult to understand Orkun for a turkish person, as there are many similarities. (once the the text has been put into the latin alphabet of course ) |
Yeah, you think these two dialects of Turkish are too similar:
1."Turk Oguz begleri budun esidin uzetenri basmasar asrayir telinmeser Turk budun ilinin torunun kimartati"
2."Turk, Oguz beyleri, kavmi, isitin yukarida gok basmasa, asagida yer delinmese Turk milleti ulkeni, tureni kim bozar?"
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baracuda
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Posted: 13-May-2005 at 05:00 |
Thanks "Phallanx" it would be interesting to find some etrucan text and to sort of put it into readable latin form. Knowing that all altaic languages have similarities between them, whatever the time. example is the orkun writing above, apart from the fact how turkish has deviated with intruductions of grammer and words from persian and arabic,and how things have changed in the centuries, it isn't that difficult to understand Orkun for a turkish person, as there are many similarities. (once the the text has been put into the latin alphabet of course )
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Phallanx
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Posted: 13-May-2005 at 04:43 |
Originally posted by Kenaney
But like Phallanx wrote, they are very much similarities with the
Orkhun scripts and those from the scripts found in Scandinavia. |
Actually I said that all Runic scripts are similar to Etruscan.
It's more than obvious that they all are copies of Etruscan with Orkham
being the last "copy" to appear approx. during the 8th cent.
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Kenaney
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Posted: 13-May-2005 at 02:57 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
Originally posted by Kenaney
this is very interesting, this script is like the Orkhun script isnt it? |
Maybe...
These are some Gktrk writings written with Gktrk scripts...
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For me it is the same, i see no difference between those scripts...
But like Phallanx wrote, they are very much similarities with the Orkhun scripts and those from the scripts found in Scandinavia.
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Phallanx
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Posted: 12-May-2005 at 16:03 |
Well all runic "alphabets" have some similarity to the Etruscan writing system.
Orkhon
Elder Futhark
Gothic runes
Anglo-Saxon Futhorc
Danish Futhark
Swedish-Norwegian / Short-twig / Rk Runes
Norwegian Futhark
Gothenburg / Bohusln Runes
Archaic Etruscan alphabet (7th-5th centuries BC)
Edited by Phallanx
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Posted: 12-May-2005 at 10:32 |
Originally posted by Kenaney
this is very interesting, this script is like the Orkhun script isnt it? |
Maybe...
These are some Gktrk writings written with Gktrk scripts...
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Posted: 12-May-2005 at 10:20 |
Herodotus testimony about the Etruscans is here. (Her,I 94)
"The Lydians have very nearly the same customs as the Greeks, with the exception that these last do not bring up their girls in the same way. So far as we have any knowledge, they were the first nation to introduce the use of gold and silver coin, and the first who sold goods by retail. They claim also the invention of all the games which are common to them with the Greeks. These they declare that they invented about the time when they colonised Tyrrhenia, an event of which they give the following account. In the days of Atys, the son of Manes, there was great scarcity through the whole land of Lydia. For some time the Lydians bore the affliction patiently, but finding that it did not pass away, they set to work to devise remedies for the evil. Various expedients were discovered by various persons; dice, and huckle-bones, and ball, and all such games were invented, except tables, the invention of which they do not claim as theirs. The plan adopted against the famine was to engage in games one day so entirely as not to feel any craving for food, and the next day to eat and abstain from games. In this way they passed eighteen years. Still the affliction continued and even became more grievous. So the king determined to divide the nation in half, and to make the two portions draw lots, the one to stay, the other to leave the land. He would continue to reign over those whose lot it should be to remain behind; the emigrants should have his son Tyrrhenus for their leader. The lot was cast, and they who had to emigrate went down to Smyrna, and built themselves ships, in which, after they had put on board all needful stores, they sailed away in search of new homes and better sustenance. After sailing past many countries they came to Umbria, where they built cities for themselves, and fixed their residence. Their former name of Lydians they laid aside, and called themselves after the name of the king's son, who led the colony, Tyrrhenians."
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Posted: 12-May-2005 at 10:13 |
Originally posted by Yiannis
Wasn't it Herodotus who mentioned that the Etruscans came from Lydia? Or was it Xenophon?...
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Herodotus thought that Etruscans came from Lydia and settled down on lands previously inhabited by Umbrians. As he wrote Etruscans took from Umbrians 300 of their cities (Her. I 94).
On the contrary Dionysius of Hallicarnasus supported Etruscans were autochtonous Italians and not outsiders (Dion.Hal. I 28,3).
Greeks call the Etruscans in Italy and the inhabitants of island Lemnos the same name Tyrrheno or Turseno. Morphologic analysis of this name, created by suffix -eno- from root turs- is showing an "eastern" origin. Because only there, in northern parts of the Aegean Sea we have this names of inhabitants or peoples. From city Abydos for example was created a name for it's citizens Abydeno. That means Herodotus was maybe right - as it often happened. However we do know, Etruscans liked to call themselves Rasna.
Edited by Cassandra
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Yiannis
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Posted: 12-May-2005 at 05:27 |
Wasn't it Herodotus who mentioned that the Etruscans came from Lydia? Or was it Xenophon?...
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Kenaney
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Posted: 12-May-2005 at 05:23 |
this is very interesting, this script is like the Orkhun script isnt it?
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Posted: 11-May-2005 at 18:09 |
I think they are a mixture of indigenous Italians and Aegeans. Surely Etruscan language does not belong to the great Indo-European family.
There has been an inscription found in 1885 at Kaminia on the northern Aegean island of Lemnos and dated to the late sixth century BCE (Before Common Era) which is written in an alphabet and language akin to Etruscan on a stele with the figure of a warrior. It has 98 letters, forming 33 words. In 1928 Italian archaeologists in Lemnos found similar fragmentary inscriptions on sherds of locally made pottery. These were of vital importance, for they showed that the language was actually spoken in Lemnos: the stele had not been imported from elsewhere in the Mediterranean.
We know, therefore, that a dialect close to Etruscan was spoken at Lemnos before the Athenian conquest of the island in the second half of the sixth century BCE. This dialect was different from all other languages spoken in the area. We do not know, however, how and when it came to be spoken there.
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Phallanx
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Posted: 11-May-2005 at 11:46 |
Just so there won't be any misunderstanding even though I think there
was. I was talking about the Romans in my previous post not the
Etruscans.
Alparslan
Not sure what you're trying to say. Maybe that the Etruscans were of Turkish origin????
If you continued reading the article you'd find
" the Etruscan one contains an excess of haplotypes suggesting
evolutionary ties with the populations of the southern and eastern
Mediterranean shores."
If it was about Turks as in the original Ottomans, he would have
mentioned the Steppes (Mongoloid genes) but by clearly connecting them
to S and E Mediterrainian shores he is reering to genes that were there
long before you ever stepped foot in Anatolia.
You also missed the comment:
"The problem is that this research concentrates on mitochondrial DNA. It
tells us nothing about the Y-chromosomes of the Etruscans and therefore
gives an incomplete picture."
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Alparslan
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Posted: 11-May-2005 at 10:38 |
According to genetic studies conducted so far Etruscans are the closest people to Turks today.
http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/blog/archives/000522.html
"In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations. "
Status of an Etruscan
Another Etruscan
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Kenaney
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Posted: 11-May-2005 at 09:27 |
SO?? Is it known from where they come? How they look like or a simpel paint tablo on walls (an example)?
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vulkan02
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Posted: 10-May-2005 at 20:07 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
I thought Etruscians werent Indo Europeans. |
me too their language was clearly not Indo European and i read somewhere that they might have originated in Asia Minor
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Posted: 10-May-2005 at 11:11 |
I thought Etruscians werent Indo Europeans.
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Kenaney
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Posted: 10-May-2005 at 09:03 |
Thanks a lot Phallanx for the info.
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Phallanx
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Posted: 09-May-2005 at 18:26 |
I mean (phalanx) do you mean they where hellenic speaking people? |
If by Hellinic speaking you also mean that their origin was Hellinic,
that is debatable. I'll just note a couple of things I've came across
that are quite interesting, you judge for yourself if they're worth you doing any
further research.
We know from their mythology that they connected themselves to the
Hellinic world (Hellas and Troy). If we try to take this further, we
know that the first population of Rome was the Sabines, Hellinic
immigrants from Lacedaemonia as we find in Cato's "Origines".
We know from various texts that the Romans, Latins and Sabines had
agreed that the name quiris/quiretes would be their common name which
all dictionaries translate as citizen. But the Romans had a name for
citizens, like the Hellinic, "polites", i.e. civitas.
The names quiris-quiretes derive from the Hellinic name kouros-kouretes
which means "young men of fighting age" and therefore warriors, young
men,young warriors, Iliad 19. 193, 248.
So the Romans, Latins and Sabines called themselves first warriors and then citizens.
Now because all three groups of Romans, Latins and Sabines came to
Italy by sea from Greece and Asia minor they were warrior sailors and
sea faring peoples. It is obviously for this reason that at their
weddings they shouted the Hellinic word "Thalassios" = sailor, at the
groom and not the Latin name "marinos".
We know that the first Latin historians wrote in Hellinic, see Quintus
Fabius Pictor, Lucius Cincius Alimentus, Gaius Acilius and Aulus
Postumius Albinus.
According to Cicero the first Romans who wrote in Latin prose were
Sabine Claudius, Appius Caecus who was in consul in 307 and 296 BC.
He delivered speech in Latin to the Senate after making peace with Pyrrhus, the king of Epirus
We also have the satiric poet "Juvelinius" (sp?) that said:
"non posso ferre grecam urbem"
"I can't stand this Hellinic city" (meaning Rome)
If you read Livy you'll find that the King of Alba Longa, Mettius Fufetius in an argument with Tullus Hostilius, states:
"And if we should yield the command to you, the base-born will rule
over the true-born, barbarians over Hellines, and immigrants over the
native-born."
Dionysius summarizes the reports of the Hellinic origin of the Romans by the Romans themselves as follows:
"But the most well known of the Roman historians, among whom is Porcius
Cato (who compiled with the greatest care the 'origins' of the Italian
cities) Gaius Sempronius and a great many others, say that they are
Hellines, part of those who once dwelt in Achaia"
We know that everyday life and customs were based on the Hellinic
world, so we have the music contests by Nero in a Hellinic manner, all
tragedies are either translated or imitated and all given
Hellinic titles (Hermiona, Troades, Danae, Hecuba, Medea, Achilles,
Tereus........)
We could continue by quoting many Latin scripts that mention Hellinic
influence and origin but I think that this is the best representative.
"Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio"
that means:
"Captive Greece captured her fierce captor and brought the arts into uncultured Latium
There is alot more where this came from but it's enough for you to start on.
Edited by Phallanx
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Kenaney
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Posted: 08-May-2005 at 11:53 |
sh*tz cant edit my post (sorry)
I mean (phalanx) do you mean they where hellenic speaking people?
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