Chromosome Haplogroup Map

...and the Orkney Ukranian

Man, this map left out my country!!!!

Well, at least it showed the Chinese's claim on Tibetan and Uyhur being part of Chinese race complete bullsh*t.  Now just need Taiwan's chart to help in my cause of Taiwanese independence.

to fastspawn,

The Chinese government did not just say the land is a apart of china. They taught their children saying they are all historically Chinese in both blood and culture. Here they can be changed from Uyghurs, Tibetans, Taiwanese and any other "Chinese and always has beens".

Most Taiwanese are not Chinese. Taiwan was first permanently discovered by the Portuguese. Then partly occupied by the Dutch, the Spanish and invaded by the French, American and Japanese. Dutch people were actually the people that started immigrating Chinese to Taiwan. They imported poor Chinese people along the coast of China to work for them, much like what the Spanish did in the Philippines and other European powers did in South East Asia. When the Dutch people arrived in Taiwan, Taiwan was entirely inhabited by the Austronesian tribes.

Dutch people even gave the Silaya tribe writing inorder to preach to them. The Dutch estimated the aboriginal population to be around 600 to 700 thousands, which was an underestimation due to the lack of knowledge of Mountainous area and the East coast aboriginals. When the Chinese people came to China, they are mostly male. Much like those Chinese male brought to America to build the transcontinental rail roads. This continued when the Qing dynasty occupied Taiwan.

The Chinese male came to Taiwan in hope of making a living and return to China with wealth. However, most of them were just as broke in Taiwan as they were in China and never returned. Most of them ended up marrying the aboriginals. Therefore there's a Taiwanese saying �u����s���A�L��s���v "These are only Grandpas from China, no Grandmas from China". Due to the lack of writing, and the concept of ownership like most Austronesians, the strong Chinese culture influence eventually assimilated most of the aboriginals who lived along the coast (���H�� Ping-Pu aboriginals). That is why average Taiwanese has 80% of Austronesian traits show by the recent DNA tests. Most Taiwanese people are still Austronesians. The all 700 thousand didn't just all disappear to occupy less than 2% of the Taiwanese population.

You can argue that culturally most Taiwanese are similar to those of Han Chinese. Having the same culture does not mean they are the same country or they have always been the same country or entitle any nation to claim another nation as its territory. Germany and Austria are different nations there are many examples that just because people spoke the same language or came from the same place, doesn't mean they have to be one nation.

China claims that Taiwan has always been an inseparable part of China historically. I seriously doubt their understanding of the word always. Here's "some Chinese documents" proving Taiwan is not always part of China.

�@�����T�~�H���e�X�L�x�n�ϭرF�ɡA�H�x�����ĴN���A�x�W�D���� �����ϡA�]�رF�L���H���Z�֫ءA�ҥH�~�X�L�C�P�ɪ����ǥ�Ʀܻ� �G�u���O�����H�N�x���餧���\�A�^�u�H�S�������ҿתF�f�]���Y�x �W�^�]�C�v

In 1603, General Shen You-Rong went to Tainan to rid of the pirates. The recorder Chen Di wrote "Taiwan is not a part of China. It is because of the Japanese pirates settling here, forcing us to come here. Recorder Chen Xue-Yi wrote "If not for General Shen You-Rong's successful military action, even a QuanZhou, FuJian person like me, wouldn't know of the existence of DongFan (Eastern Barbarians, referring to Taiwan).

�m���v�n�q�~��C�ǡr�u��Ţ�s�b������F�_�A�G�W�_��A�S�W�F�f �A�h�u�{����C�K�v

Keelung (Northern Taiwan) is to the northeast of Pescadores islands, used to be known as BeiGang (Port of North), also known as DongFan (Eastern Barbarians). It is quiet far from QuanZhou, FuJian.

-- Ming Shi (History of Ming Dynasty)
Taiwan was listed along with Japan, Corea, RyuKyo and Vietnam. Obviously not a part of China.

�l�����~�A�ˬӫҧY��A�@��G�u�x�W�ۥj���ݤ���A�� �Ӧү��Z�]�Y�d���ҡ^�����A�ݤJ���ϡC... �v
--�M�E�Q���G�i�t�Z�����j���i�d�����w�x�W�O�j

The first Year of Yung-Zheng, Emperor Xian sit in the thorn, he stated: "Taiwan was not a part of China since the ancient times. Our Emperor KaoShenWu (referring to Emperor KangXi) has great influence, expanded our territory to include it�K"

--Qing Dynasty. Wei Yuan: "Kang Xi taking Taiwan" from The Military achievements of KangXi (Sheng Wu Ji Lue)

The Dutch actually didn't want Taiwan at first. They wanted Pescadores Islands (now ��� Penghu islands owned by the Taiwanese government) in between China and Taiwan, which was a part of China since the Mongolian Yuan dynasty. The Dutch and the Ming dynasty had a war in 1622 over Pescadores. In 1624, Ming dynasty and Dutch came to agreement when Ming dynasty suggested the Dutch go to the ownerless island (well, it was owned by the aboriginals and some Japanese-Chinese pirates) of Taiwan. In 1626, Spanish occupied the northern part of Taiwan, but was driven out by the Dutch in 1642. The Spanish left behind some buildings and some names for places. For example �T�I�� (In Taiwanese, San Diao Go) which is Spanish name of San Diego.

The Dutch was driven out of Taiwan by �G���\ Zheng Cheng-Gong (Cheng Xing-Gong, a.k.a KoSingYa). He is the son of a Chinese pirate, and was born in Japan by his Japanese mother. His father surrendered to Ming Dynasty when Ming Dynasty bought him out with money for him to be a general of China. When the Manchurians invaded the Ming Dynasty, Zheng's father surrendered again to the Manchurians. Zheng refused to give up the fight and disowned his father. He continued fighting the Manchurians, eventually losing all the mainland grounds.

He turned his attention to Taiwan where his father sometime hid to avoid capture. The Dutch has build two fortresses, Zeelandia and Provintia. Where the Dutch believed the enemy came only approach from one direction. However an Chinese worker informed Zheng of an secret water way. When Zheng arrived under full moon and high tide, this secret water way opened up, and he was able to surprise the Dutch and force them to surrender. His invasion of Taiwan was successful. However, his grandson forced general �I�w Shi Lang to defect to the Manchurian Qing dynasty. Shi took the Qing navy down the same path Zheng went, and Zheng's grandson surrendered Taiwan to the Qing dynasty.

Qing dynasty actually didn't make Taiwan a province of China until the 1885, almost the end of Qing dynasty, when Taiwan was wanted by the Europeans and the Japanese. In 1884, France invaded Taiwan along with Vietnam. The Qing dynasty was able to drive them out of both places, neither were part of China. However Qing dynasty realized the importance of China and made Taiwan an province the following month.

By the end of Qing dynasty it was absolute humiliation for the Chinese empire. In 1894, Corea was invaded by Japan. Qing dynasty went to Corean's aid and was defeated by the Europeanized Japan. Qing dynasty was forced to sign ��������, The Treaty of Shimonoseki (known in Japan as �U������). In which Qing China "permanently" gave Taiwan to Japan. The Chinese representative ���E�� Lee Hung-Zhang wrote to the Qing court saying the people in Taiwan are simply barbarians. It is not a big deal of giving up Taiwan, because in Taiwan �u�k�L���A�k�L�q�A�����y�A�ᤣ���v "Their man has no loyalty. Their woman has no self-respect. Their birds don't sing. Their flowers don't have fragrance."

The Taiwanese rebel upon the Japanese invasion. It declared its independence call called itself �x�W���D��, Republic Nation of Taiwan.  The Chinese leader of the resistance first hoped that the Europeans would come to their aid, when they discovered the Europeans and Americans had no interests in helping them, they fled back to China. However the people of Taiwan fought on. They at one point killed the Japanese royalty in charge of the invasion. At the end, the resistance fought by the Han-Taiwanese and the aboriginal Taiwanese failed.

The flag of Republic Nation of Taiwan.  If the resistance was a success, it would have been the first republic nation in Asia.

However other resistance movements never stopped. The most famous is the rebellion of the Atayal Tribe, led by Monaludo. The Japanese had to use the chemical weapons to kill them in their hiding place.

There's more on this topic that I can write another thread just as long, explaining the international treaties after World War 2 that granted Taiwan's future is for Taiwanese people to decide in the future. Also explaining how the Nationalist Chinese party (Guo Ming Dang) has suppressed the Taiwanese people by means of a police state and misrepresented Taiwan for 45 years. The nationalist can claim as much as they want that China is still under their control. But they are delusional, any idiot knows that is not true and will never be true again. If you want to read about that, I'll write those some other time.

Today Taiwan is a completely free and democratic nation. China points about 500 missiles along their coast line, pointing towards Taiwan.  That is the most fortified coast line today in the world.  Yet they claim it is the Taiwanese disturbing the peace, while they deny Taiwan from every international organization, even that of the World Health Organization during the height of the SARS out break.

In my personal opinion, the real reason for Chinese to claim Taiwan is for its military strategic importance. Right now the Chinese navy has no free entrance into the Pacific. It is blocked by Corea, Japan, RyuKyu to the north, Taiwan and Philippines to the south. China is eagerly building up their navy, especially in its carriers and anti-carrier forces. If Taiwan is part of China, its only purpose is to serve China as the lunching base of its navy into the pacific. And By doing so, China can become a real world power.

Haha, Cywr, I think I just have it under control.  Wow, the creator of this cgi must be a Microsoft hater.

"They taught their children saying they are all historically Chinese in both blood and culture. Here they can be changed from Uyghurs, Tibetans, Taiwanese and any other "Chinese and always has beens"."

Nonsense, PRC never did claim Uighurs and Han are related by blood, what rubbish have you herd that from? China has always taught the nation to be of 56 ethnic groups. Blood relation has never been taught or emphasized.