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Names of the steppe people; anyone have a list?
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SirChristopher View Drop Down
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Posts: 8 		  Quote SirChristopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Names of the steppe people; anyone have a list?
    Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 17:25
I've been reading up some on the Central Asian steppe peoples, particularly those preceding the rise of the Mongol Empire. It has piqued my interest to try and look up the naming conventions of these people, specifically the Khitans and the Uighurs, but so far my luck has been lacking. Would anyone know a good resource for the given names of the central Asian steppe peoples? If not, I'll take any reasonable substitute, such as a list of Old Turkic names. Yes, I know Uighur Turkic and Old Turkic are not exactly the same thing, but that is why it is called a substitute. 

Much appreciations ahead of time.
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 02:24
Mahmud al-Kashgari(11th centruy) has a book and one of the its part is about Turkish tribes 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_al-Kashgari
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Posts: 107 		  Quote oxydracae Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 02:30
I think the formal history of Central Asia begins with Scythian tribes, then lot of nations came and gone...
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Posts: 8 		  Quote SirChristopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2012 at 20:26
Originally posted by oxydracae

I think the formal history of Central Asia begins with Scythian tribes, then lot of nations came and gone...

A shame I'm not asking about the Scythians then, no?
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Mar-2012 at 01:32
Have you ever looked this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medieval_Mongolian_tribes_and_clans?

some Turkic tribes in mongol empire period (or a little before)
*Yugur People:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugur
*Naimans:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naimans
*Karluks:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karluks
*Cuman people:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuman_people
*Kimek tribe:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimek_tribe
*Kipchaks:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchaks
*Chorni Klobuky:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherniye_Klobuki
*Pechenegs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pechenegs
*and Oghuz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Turks

I hope I could help you alittle bit
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Posts: 8 		  Quote SirChristopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2012 at 01:30
I think my intentions have been misunderstood, here.

I need names of PEOPLE, not tribes. The tribes that interest me are the Uighurs and the Khitans (although I do appreciate all the links to other steppe tribes), and I want names of PEOPLE from those tribes, or more specifically, what naming rules those people followed. 

Example, why was Abaoji named Abaoji? What does the name mean? What were other names the Khitans used?

And for the Uighurs, what Turkic names were commonplace at the time? They weren't a Muslim majority yet, so those names are out. That's what I'm asking for. Sorry if I confused people.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Mar-2012 at 19:15
Genghis?
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 01:33
Originally posted by SirChristopher

I think my intentions have been misunderstood, here.

I need names of PEOPLE, not tribes. The tribes that interest me are the Uighurs and the Khitans (although I do appreciate all the links to other steppe tribes), and I want names of PEOPLE from those tribes, or more specifically, what naming rules those people followed. 

Example, why was Abaoji named Abaoji? What does the name mean? What were other names the Khitans used?

And for the Uighurs, what Turkic names were commonplace at the time? They weren't a Muslim majority yet, so those names are out. That's what I'm asking for. Sorry if I confused people.


I have totally misunderstood you Confused

If you give me some names, I can try to explain them.

Chagatai is still used name in Turkey. It is like a red indian name. Tai (Tay) means baby horse and Chagla-mak is a verb for flowing water, so total name means "active baby horse"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagatai_Khan

Temujin(born name of Genghis) means iron-man, hard guy
In modern Turkish "Demir" means iron
In modern Uzbek, Temir

Are you looking for something like these?

Note: Islam started to spread in Central Asia, before Geghiz Khan. Formal Turkish history says that Turk started to choose Islam after Battle of Talas (741 AD)
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Posts: 72 		  Quote Snafu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 04:06
Steppe people generally had single-word (sometimes double-word) names and didn't use surnames. Although some names are seen multiple times, most steppe names were unique and reflected something about the person's birth or personality or appearance. Sometimes a baby might be named after something lucky like iron (timur) or a lucky number (you see the number nine-- "Yesu-" in many Mongol names because that was their good luck number). Sometimes a baby might be given the name of something terrible or confusing to ward off demons (a boy might be given a girl's name, or a baby might be named "ugly"). And if the person becomes a great warrior or leader he might have titles added to his name. 

In their tribal days the Khitans and Uighurs both followed traditional steppe naming customs. But as they both moved into foreign lands and adopted foreign religions they adopted foreign names too. The Khitan names that we know of are filtered through the Chinese language and sound more like Chinese names. Names like Ahai, Liuge, Yibujin, Wuyu, Aguo, Yenning, and Yaogu.  Uighur names were usually Turkic but sometimes Sogdian or Persian names would appear because the ancient Uighurs had close ties to those people.
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2012 at 21:03
Tang China and the collapse of the Uighur Empire
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Posts: 72 		  Quote Snafu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2012 at 03:46
Here's a few ancient Uighur names I've gleaned from a few books (including the one mentioned above)

Gokcho
Toshtuk
Joloi
Saikal (fem)
Chotai (fem)
Sudai
Bosku
Kanish (fem)
Chustuk
Arik
Ergak
Kendshaka
Otkurmish


There are also many names in the Secret History of the Mongols that are derived from Orkhon Turkish, the same dialect the ancient Uighurs spoke.

Monglik
Alakush
Kokochu
Kishilik
Boroldai
Bai Shingqor
Khatigun
Bekter
Goksagu
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Mar-2012 at 07:28
This site maybe able to add a few names to the list.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Great find AlaniThumbs Up
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Posts: 1130 		  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2012 at 01:25
Originally posted by Snafu

Here's a few ancient Uighur names I've gleaned from a few books (including the one mentioned above)

Gokcho
Toshtuk
Joloi
Saikal (fem)
Chotai (fem)
Sudai
Bosku
Kanish (fem)
Chustuk
Arik
Ergak
Kendshaka
Otkurmish


There are also many names in the Secret History of the Mongols that are derived from Orkhon Turkish, the same dialect the ancient Uighurs spoke.

Monglik
Alakush
Kokochu
Kishilik
Boroldai
Bai Shingqor
Khatigun
Bekter
Goksagu



First of all I have no experience about central Asian language. Turk, Azeri and Turkmen have same origin, It is very easy to understand Azeri as a Turk, so I will just focus on root words

Gokcho: Gok/Gök(modern turkish) means sky
 
Alakush: Ala means "mix coloured" and kush means bird

Saikal/Saykal means "who shows respect"

Arik means "agile person"

Suday: Sud means milk in old turkish(today süt), ay means moon

about boroldai, I have just found surname boruldai without meaning, but name birol means "being unique"
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2012 at 19:33
A brief history of the Uyghurs:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1909416,00.html
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Posts: 72 		  Quote Snafu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2012 at 08:55
I do know the meanings of some of those names--

Monglik = a mole (animal, not a skin mole)
Kishilik - large and boastful
Boroldai - a type of bird
Bai Shingqor - rich falcon (or type of falcon)
Khatigun - strong/solid
Bekter - armor
Goksagu - voice like heaven (thunder)
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2012 at 19:43
Cambridge History of China has a section on the ancient Khitan:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iN9Tdfdap5MC&lpg=PA45&dq=khitan&pg=PA44#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2012 at 20:21
This may or may not add to the list, but these only include those that are Mongolian. I was hoping to see the Asud added to them.Wink

What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Posts: 8 		  Quote SirChristopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2012 at 20:48
Originally posted by Ollios



I have totally misunderstood you Confused

If you give me some names, I can try to explain them.

Chagatai is still used name in Turkey. It is like a red indian name. Tai (Tay) means baby horse and Chagla-mak is a verb for flowing water, so total name means "active baby horse"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagatai_Khan

Temujin(born name of Genghis) means iron-man, hard guy
In modern Turkish "Demir" means iron
In modern Uzbek, Temir

Are you looking for something like these?

Note: Islam started to spread in Central Asia, before Geghiz Khan. Formal Turkish history says that Turk started to choose Islam after Battle of Talas (741 AD)

That's quite alright, I should have clarified myself better.

Where do you get your resources for names? I would really love a list of names with their meanings.


Originally posted by Snafu

Steppe people generally had single-word (sometimes double-word) names and didn't use surnames. Although some names are seen multiple times, most steppe names were unique and reflected something about the person's birth or personality or appearance. Sometimes a baby might be named after something lucky like iron (timur) or a lucky number (you see the number nine-- "Yesu-" in many Mongol names because that was their good luck number). Sometimes a baby might be given the name of something terrible or confusing to ward off demons (a boy might be given a girl's name, or a baby might be named "ugly"). And if the person becomes a great warrior or leader he might have titles added to his name.  

In their tribal days the Khitans and Uighurs both followed traditional steppe naming customs. But as they both moved into foreign lands and adopted foreign religions they adopted foreign names too. The Khitan names that we know of are filtered through the Chinese language and sound more like Chinese names. Names like Ahai, Liuge, Yibujin, Wuyu, Aguo, Yenning, and Yaogu.  Uighur names were usually Turkic but sometimes Sogdian or Persian names would appear because the ancient Uighurs had close ties to those people.

Useful information, this. Have you a resource of commonly used words used in steppe names? Where they the same words as the language proper , or were names different from them?
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