Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Jews a Race?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Fula View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 16-Dec-2011
Location: Maryland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 170
  Quote Fula Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jews a Race?
    Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 13:49
I apologize ahead of time in case I offend anybody
 
Even before I was interested in history I never thought of Jewish people as a diffferent race (seperate from other Europeans). It never made sense to me. Being a Jew is a Religion that many people of different backgrounds have adopted just like Christianity, Buddhism, and Islam. Testament to this fact is the presence of Jewish people all around the world ex. China, India, Ethiopia.
 
My question is where did the modern day perception of a Jew come from? I hear people say "oh he has a Jewish nose" or a "Jewish look". Why is only one phenotype accepted as Jewish? Should Jew even be a classification for a race? I personally find it hard to believe the Jews in the bible look the same as the Jews we accept today.
 
Again Im just curious and would really like to learn more and maybe be conviced that they are indeed a race of people and everyone else is just converts. Hopefully I made questions clear Confused
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 14:03
Jews from Historical events were not very different from rest of the people those days!Jews now share lot
of culture&language&genes from Jews than!SmileMain claim of mine is:Jews were part of Ancient Egyptian civilization as their language proofs it.

Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 14:09
This is a very controversial topic that could be answered both "yes" and "no." Originally, the Jews were indeed a "race" (or, more correctly, ethnicity): Semites descended from Abraham who practised a unique monotheistic religion. After conquering Palestine they intermarried with other Semites: members of the same Middle Eastern race that includes the Arabs, Phoneicians, Canaanites, Moabites and Akkadians. After the destruction of the temple many Jews ended up in Europe and were absorbed by the Slavic and Mediterranean races, retaining only their religion. Others, however, stayed in Palestine and converted to Christianity and later Islam. This group, the modern-day Palestinians, are the direct descendents of the Jews of the bible


Edited by Nick1986 - 30-Jan-2012 at 15:33
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962
  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 14:37
Originally posted by Fula

 
Should Jew even be a classification for a race? 
No. Jews are an ethnicity, but they are not a "race" by modern definition.  Racially, Jews are caucasoids.  This makes them of the same race as French, Dutch, Arabs, Berbers, etc.
Originally posted by Fula

I
My question is where did the modern day perception of a Jew come from? I hear people say "oh he has a Jewish nose" or a "Jewish look". Why is only one phenotype accepted as Jewish?
That is due to certain ethnic features that Jews and other semites (Arabs) are associated with.  Of course, there can be alot of variation as to what degree individual arabs and jews have these features.
Originally posted by Fula

I personally find it hard to believe the Jews in the bible look the same as the Jews we accept today.
It might depend on which modern Jews you are using as the comparison.  Sephardic (culturally middle eastern) jews have kept more of their semitic features.  Askenazi jews (European) have intermarried more with other ethnic groups.  Even still, a certain number of Ashkenazis have also kept their semetic feaures to varying degrees.  By and large, I would say that semetic appearing Sephardic and Askenazi jews today look like their biblical ancestors.
Originally posted by Fula

Even before I was interested in history I never thought of Jewish people as a diffferent race (seperate from other Europeans). It never made sense to me. Being a Jew is a Religion that many people of different backgrounds have adopted just like Christianity, Buddhism, and Islam.
This is true, but only to a relative degree.  Compared with Chrsitianity, Buddhism and Islam, the number of converts into Judaism (Judaism is the religion, Jewish is the associated ethnicity) has been very small.  As a result, many of those who practice Judaism as a religion have kept, to varying degrees, the ethnic features of the original jews.  It works in reverse to. For example, ethnic Jews keep these features whether they practice  Judaism or not.


Edited by Cryptic - 30-Jan-2012 at 14:59
Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4734
  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 15:13
Well, there are no races to start with, the Amecrican Anthropology Association came to this conclusion in like 1998, or something like that.There are only physical types, phenotypes, and they can be used only to follow the migration of people around the map, very carefully through because it can be deceiving. The Hebrews as such separated from the Akkadians, as their language was proven through a Bayasian analyses to have separated from the Akkadian in 4000 BC. Later, like all people going around and mixing, so did the Hebrews, many of them ended up in Europe as Ashkenazim. There had been intermarriages /even though the Jews had been known not to intermarry, but the modern times changed this/. The phenotype of a particular Jew depends on how much intermarriages his family was prone too, some retain wickedly handsome Near Eastern feature or too, some not at all.

So, no, the Jews are not a race, nor is anyone a race anyway; there are only people and different and intermixed physica apearances, which I'm very glad about - I really fall for a certain North African phenotype that is mixture from variety of European, near Eastern and North African features
like this dude Khaled Nabawy -- Egyptian

Click the image to open in full size.
What "race" is that, if one was to do and try to define races by faces and locales?
Or, Alexander Sidding, Sudanese, what "race" one should place him, if one takes races?

Click the image to open in full size.
Ian McKeller looks like a Jew, but is English, even has a "Sir" in front of his name.

Click the image to open in full size.
You see what I mean - there are no "races", and from one's phenotype one cannot surmise much, we all are product of humans mating all along the timeline and the map.
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084
  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 15:39
Prejudice is that thing man does in order to try to divide instead of showing connections.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962
  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 16:22
Originally posted by Don Quixote


You see what I mean - there are no "races", and from one's phenotype one cannot surmise much,
I think there are broad divions that one can either call a "race" or "individual displaying pre dominance of  phenotypes X, Y, and Z".  Regardless of which classification method one uses, the concept remains the same:  Not all humans look alike and many humans can be classified into general groups. A classification system is still a classification system.
 
Of the three photos you have shown, I think all would be classified under the old term of being racially "caucasoid".  Under the new definition, they maybe classified by predominance of pheotypes, the core concept appears to be the same.
Originally posted by Don Quixote


we all are product of humans mating all along the timeline and the map.
True, but this applies far more to some human populations than others.  For example, Australian Aborigones have certain racial characterisitcs (Autraloids) or "phenotype varieties" that make them distinct from almost all other populations.   Likewise, Japanese and probably Tibetans, though they share some phenotypes with other asians, are a genetically very isolated people given their population size.    San people have very distict pheotypes from other Africans and are also genetically isolated.  Other genetially isolated peoples exist in rural areas.
 
In the end, being genetically isolated does not make anybody "pure", but it does mean that not everyone is the product of the same degree of inter marriage.  
 
 
 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 30-Jan-2012 at 17:07
Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869
  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 17:17
Originally posted by Nick1986

This is a very controversial topic that could be answered both "yes" and "no." Originally, the Jews were indeed a "race" (or, more correctly, ethnicity): Semites descended from Abraham who practised a unique monotheistic religion. After conquering Palestine they intermarried with other Semites: members of the same Middle Eastern race that includes the Arabs, Phoneicians, Canaanites, Moabites and Akkadians. After the destruction of the temple many Jews ended up in Europe and were absorbed by the Slavic and Mediterranean races, retaining only their religion. Others, however, stayed in Palestine and converted to Christianity and later Islam. This group, the modern-day Palestinians, are the direct descendents of the Jews of the bible


Such an over-simplification Nick. Did you know that Galut (exile) is a spiritual exile not a forced one? There are no records of it except in Rabbinic discussion whence it is reffered to as a spiritual exile due to the destruction of the temple. This is proven by the fact that there were thriving Jewish communities in the area even AFTER 70AD, how do we know? Shimon Bar Kokhba would lead a massive revolt against the Roman aggressors almost 60 years later. Even after the Bar Kokhba ended, Jewish communities prospered for 2 more ceturies.

Aside from that, consider these cases since you only touched on the Ashkenazim (europeans) and not on the Sephardim or Mezrahim. Ever heard of the Himyarite kingdom in Yemen? They used to be idol worshippers who later on converted to Judaism and this is attested still by the presence of Yemenite Jewry in both Yemen and Israel.

What about Jews of Spain (such as Chasdai ben Shaprut and Rambam ben Maimun) and North Africa? All Jews from Galut? Jews definitely came to these regions before galut and after galut but they were also proselytes. Converted Phoenicians from Sidon and Tyre went to major ports like Carthage, Cyrene and Tingis helping to spread the word of YHWH. Many Libyans, Phoenicians, Spaniards and Berbers converted to Judaism and made the bulk Sephardim Jews.

You need to think outside the political box, there is no one israelite gene common between all jews. Do Jews deserve to live in Modern-day israel? Yes. Is Zionism a nationalistic or religious movement? It has aspects of both but religion is not a good claim for land, national rights in a modern state definitely are!

Just for fun here is a beautiful Yemenite Jewish Song, see the mix between Arabic and Hebrew, so awesome!




Edited by Baal Melqart - 30-Jan-2012 at 17:23
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 19:18
There's also the Ethiopians who converted to Judaism. They now worship as Orthodox Christians but still refuse to eat pork as they consider it unclean
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4734
  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 19:51
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Don Quixote


You see what I mean - there are no "races", and from one's phenotype one cannot surmise much,
I think there are broad divions that one can either call a "race" or "individual displaying pre dominance of  phenotypes X, Y, and Z".  Regardless of which classification method one uses, the concept remains the same:  Not all humans look alike and many humans can be classified into general groups. A classification system is still a classification system.
 
Of the three photos you have shown, I think all would be classified under the old term of being racially "caucasoid".  Under the new definition, they maybe classified by predominance of pheotypes, the core concept appears to be the same.
Originally posted by Don Quixote


we all are product of humans mating all along the timeline and the map.
True, but this applies far more to some human populations than others.  For example, Australian Aborigones have certain racial characterisitcs (Autraloids) or "phenotype varieties" that make them distinct from almost all other populations.   Likewise, Japanese and probably Tibetans, though they share some phenotypes with other asians, are a genetically very isolated people given their population size.    San people have very distict pheotypes from other Africans and are also genetically isolated.  Other genetially isolated peoples exist in rural areas.
 
In the end, being genetically isolated does not make anybody "pure", but it does mean that not everyone is the product of the same degree of inter marriage.  
 

No, humans don't look alike, and about 75-95% of people cannot be qualified as being from one of another race, but having mixed phenotypes; that's hwy the qualification "race" is so misguiding. On the picture I posted, the first 2 are of an Egyptian and a Sudanese - classifying them as "Caucasian" is misguiding, I'm sure their DNA shows differently. The very word "Caucasian" is a culturally defined word, with no anthropological meaning - in the US a Caucasian is everyone who is not Black, Native American, Hispanic, or Asian - but in fact the Hispanics are Caucasians under the old racial classification; somewhere else "Caucasian" may mean something else. So, this word is a misguiding one, not based on a relatively objective scientific criterion, and as such not good one to use in antropologically oriented discussion. And then where is one to put the Indians, there are many phenotypes in India and note one them is "Caucasian, Negroid and Mongoloid".

That's why I use ethnicities as qualifications, or geographical locales - like Egyptian, North African, etc. In the case of the Jews, it depend how they see themselves - if a random American come to me and present himself as a Jew, I'll respect that, no matter how he looks. Every country has more than one phenotype in it, I had seen pictures of Egyptians that cover a wide variety of  shades and facial features, and to call some of them "Caucasians" some something else is giving us nothing objective we ca work with.

Your examples about the Australian Aborigines and San are proving my point - "races" is not a good word to use, because there are too many exceptions, to the point that the variety devaluates such simplified qualifications. Besides the word "race" is so loaded with negative connotations, that introducing it in any discussion can bring more negative influence than positive one.
Back to Top
Toltec View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Shape Shifter

Joined: 12-May-2011
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1748
  Quote Toltec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 03:48
Originally posted by Cryptic

No. Jews are an ethnicity, but they are not a "race" by modern definition.  Racially, Jews are caucasoids.  This makes them of the same race as French, Dutch, Arabs, Berbers, etc.  
 
Caucasoid is not a race, it's just a hangover from discredited science of craneology from the turn of the twentieth century. Modern genetics makes mockery of the idea of race. I'm English, genetically I have more in common with someone from Cameroon than I do with most other Europeans. Shall we have a Anglo/Spanish/Cameroony race base on recent genetic finds?
 
There is a linguistic group of people who speak Hebrew, Jews that speak Hebrew are members of this group, then again non-Jews who speak Hebrew are also members of this group.
 
Jews as an ethnicity. Most Jews don't wear black and eat kosher. the ones that do I'll accept as a culture but the rest live by European or American culture and values, entirely.
 
 
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?

History Planet Website
<br /
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 03:51
Agree with you Toltec.Linguistic groups could reveal us communications among people(including sexual!)in
ancient times and place they lived together.Smile
Back to Top
Arab View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 09-Jul-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 197
  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 03:53
In central and eastern European countries having red hair is (or was) associated with being Jewish, and to my knowledge red hair is a distinctly European trait..?
Back to Top
Cryptic View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 05-Jul-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1962
  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 11:46
Originally posted by Toltec

 
Caucasoid is not a race, it's just a hangover from discredited science of craneology from the turn of the twentieth century. Modern genetics makes mockery of the idea of race.
Originally posted by Don Quixote

No, humans don't look alike, and about 75-95% of people cannot be qualified as being from one of another race, but having mixed phenotypes; that's hwy the qualification "race" is so misguiding.
The modern  racial classification sytem was not based entirely on skull shape, but rather looked at a range of physical features.
 
Until now, I thought that the traditional classification of humanity into 6 races was still accepted:
- the big 3 of Caucasoid, Sub Sahara African, Asiatic  (I never liked the terms negroid and mongoloid)
-The smaller group of Australoids, and then the very small groups of San, Pygmies and "Negritos".
 
I have learned something new.
Originally posted by Don Quixote

No, humans don't look alike, and about 75-95% of people cannot be qualified as being from one of another race
I can see and accept your point that the term "race" is out dated.  I disagree, however, with your statement that 75-95% of the human population cannot be classified under the old system. Most asians, most europeans, many middle easterners, etc.  and most sub saharan africans can be classified into broad "races" under the old system. 
 
The old system did become blurry in parts of India, Latin America, Central Asia, the Horn of Africa, and the Carribean islands. 
 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 31-Jan-2012 at 12:24
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17084
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 12:30
it is a race if you need a war and ethnic cleanse.This way of separation in three groups make it week!

Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084
  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 12:36
Originally posted by medenaywe

it is a race if you need a war and ethnic cleanse.This way of separation in three groups make it week!

That's right, medenaywe, when people want to make a point against others they do such things.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Baal Melqart View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 28-Mar-2011
Location: UK
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 869
  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 13:04
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by medenaywe

it is a race if you need a war and ethnic cleanse.This way of separation in three groups make it week!

That's right, medenaywe, when people want to make a point against others they do such things.


I would actually agree with you that Jews now have a common heritage. This is because with the advent of 'Rabbinical' (see Talmud) Judaism, the Talmud prohibited proselytising and made only inter-faith marriages permissible. I believe the Talmud was codified during the time of Rambam (1135-1204) as well as the Mishne Torah. But the Oral law of the Talmud was written down as early as 200CE (Mishne) and 500CE (Gemara). So basically, predating that it was hard to call all Jews one nation. After the Oral law became written down and disseminated within Jewish circles Jews only married within their faith.

For this reason, I think it's possible to explain a common genetic heritage perhaps between major segments of Ashkenazim or Sephardim communities but to say that they are direct descendents of the Israelites is pushing the argument a little in my opinion.
Timidi mater non flet
Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4734
  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 16:13
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Don Quixote

No, humans don't look alike, and about 75-95% of people cannot be qualified as being from one of another race
I can see and accept your point that the term "race" is out dated.  I disagree, however, with your statement that 75-95% of the human population cannot be classified under the old system. Most asians, most europeans, many middle easterners, etc.  and most sub saharan africans can be classified into broad "races" under the old system. 
 
The old system did become blurry in parts of India, Latin America, Central Asia, the Horn of Africa, and the Carribean islands. 
 

"...In the United States both scholars and the general public have been conditioned to viewing human races as natural and separate divisions within the human species based on visible physical differences. With the vast expansion of scientific knowledge in this century, however, it has become clear that human populations are not unambiguous, clearly demarcated, biologically distinct groups. Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes. This means that there is greater variation within "racial" groups than between them. In neighboring populations there is much overlapping of genes and their phenotypic (physical) expressions. Throughout history whenever different groups have come into contact, they have interbred. The continued sharing of genetic materials has maintained all of humankind as a single species. ..."
http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

To classify an African with thin nose as a Caucasian is misleading, because facial features can look similar in a vastly different genetically populations. The pictures I posted are telling of that - 2 people may look European, but actually they are Egyptian and Sudanese, how is that any useful classification? Besides, to us a group of people may look the same, but they are not - we may say that all Chinese look the same, but I read that to an Chinese all Europeans look the same - so much for objectivity, all we see is highly subjective.

So I don't see any use of the term "races" - it doesn't give objective classification, it's divisive, and it has a history of being used as derisive, sow hat good is it? If a system doesn't work in India, central Asia, the Horn of Africa, the Carribeans, /and I would add the US and Canada, that are the biggest melting pots, and France and the UK and Germany which got so many emigrants from the Middle East, etc, that the phenotype there is getting blurry too, Australia is all mixed up too/ what good is it then?

That's why I say "races" as a term is not good for anything. If I need classification I go with goegraphical locale, or ethnicity, those give more detailed info. But to call an ethnicity  "a race" is a even more outdated way, even though it was used widely in like 18-19 century - like "English race", "Irish race" etc. Anyway, under any classification the Jews are not a "race", but an ethnicity, or a culture, or a religion, whether separately or all of the above.



Edited by Don Quixote - 31-Jan-2012 at 16:28
Back to Top
TheAlaniDragonRising View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Spam Fighter

Joined: 09-May-2011
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6084
  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 17:20

American Anthropological Association
Statement on "Race" and Intelligence

(adopted December 1994)

The American Anthropological Association (AAA) is deeply concerned by recent public discussions which imply that intelligence is biologically determined by race. Repeatedly challenged by scientists, nevertheless these ideas continue to be advanced. Such discussions distract public and scholarly attention from and diminish support for the collective challenge to ensure equal opportunities for all people, regardless of ethnicity or phenotypic variation.

Earlier AAA resolutions against racism (1961, 1969, 1971, 1972) have spoken to this concern. The AAA further resolves:

WHEREAS all human beings are members of one species, Homo sapiens, and

WHEREAS, differentiating species into biologically defined "races" has proven meaningless and unscientific as a way of explaining variation (whether in intelligence or other traits),

THEREFORE, the American Anthropological Association urges the academy, our political leaders and our communities to affirm, without distraction by mistaken claims of racially determined intelligence, the common stake in assuring equal opportunity, in respecting diversity and in securing a harmonious quality of life for all people.

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/race.htm



Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 31-Jan-2012 at 17:22
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
Back to Top
Nick1986 View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Mighty Slayer of Trolls

Joined: 22-Mar-2011
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7940
  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2012 at 19:54
They've thrown out the baby with the bathwater. If people with a shared skin color, language and culture are not a race or ethnicity, what are they?
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.096 seconds.