Islamists dominate Egypt

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood are currently leading in the elections, with over 50% of the vote. Is this a pattern of things to come as the dictators of yesterday are replaced by newer models?
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Any religion can be used for imperialistic ideologies, and they were, all of them, repeatedly, over and over. What do you think made the Turks go in Europe and conquer the Balkans, and forced thousands  of people to convert to Islam with knifes on their necks? Imperialism, Islamic version.

In the same way a secular ideology can be imperialistic too; but at least in a secular society there is something above the subjective decisions of people for their own usage, and possible religious fanaticism that brings nothing but problems - the law, that is equal for everyone. There is nothing less-working than a theocracy, this is proven many times with different religions. secularism is not perfect, but it's a better bet than any religiously based government, or any religion.


Edited by Don Quixote - 16-Feb-2012 at 02:23

Originally posted by eurokiller You mad because Muslims are choosing Islam instead of imperialistic euro ideologies?

im·pe·ri·al·ism/imˈpi(ə)rēəˌlizəm/

Noun:

A policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.

It is certainly not a phenomenon confined to Europe only.

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis Originally posted by Arab Originally posted by eurokiller You mad because Muslims are choosing Islam instead of imperialistic euro ideologies? im·pe·ri·al·ism/imˈpi(ə)rēəˌlizəm/ Noun: A policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force. It is certainly not a phenomenon confined to Europe only.   I concur with Arab. Yepper...Islam was doing that 14 centuries ago from it's inception... and it started in the geo-physical area we now term the Middle East. And not by a European. And one can make the arguement that it was... became... and still is... an imperialistic ideaology now and at various points in it's history... by varying factions of it's adherents.   Don't see that.... then one is blind, a supporter, deluisonal or historically inept.   I leave it to the individual to put on the appropriate pair of sababîT or kenêdir.

I could write thousands of lines on how the essence of Islam was transformed into a 'political religion' by the Rashiddun, Omayyad and Abbasid caliphates. Basically, after the death of the Muhammad many factions vied for political control and soon these 'khalifas' figured out that indoctrinating Muslims with the idea of a caliphate as a religious duty would bode well for them. They made the concept of khalifa so profoundly attached to Islam whilst such concepts are unspoken of in the Qur'an.

It started with Abu Bakr who was the first khalifa after the prophet's death. He declared a full-fledged war on apostates. Most reasonable people would see this as a political tool to keep everyone under the same religio-political roof. Then he set out to invade Persia and the Levant to extend his caliphate's influence. Ever since his caliphate, there would be a string of assassinations and wars in a never ending competition for power...

I got this book  'The Prophet's Pulpit - Islamic preaching in Contemporary Egypt" by Patric D. Gaffney, 1994

http://www.amazon.com/Prophets-Pulpit-Preaching-Contemporary-Comparative/dp/0520084721
it's an anthropological study that covers like 20 years between the 70s and the 90s, with excerpts from speeches etc. This had been going for quite a while. Here a short quote, from a sermon by Shaykh Umar, Apr. 6 1979:
"...Why isn't the Qur'an our constitution? Why isn't the Qur'an the law and in the name of God written beneath all the laws and statutes? And don't say "in the name of the nation" /umma/ or in "the name of the people". Yes, the nation is above all our heads because it's of us and we are of it' so too the people are above our heads because it is of us and we are of it, but God is the greatest..." pg.309

"...Come on, all you of the army, come on Muhhamad al-Gamsi, the minister of the War of the Arabs, where did you study? Muhhammad didn't study like you in any military academy. Yest he conquered, first aming the Arabs where he was never defeated, then among the Persians where he was never defeated, among the Europeans where he was never defeated, in the whole world where he was never defeated. Why? Because God, exalted be he, taught him. It was the will of God, not his own will, for the promise of God is more perfect than what you have learned yourselves..." pg. 313
"... The Arab nation must return to all of this, to become judge/arbiter between east and West, between America and Europe and Russia, between heaven and earth, so they may exalt peace in Truth, in the name of Truth, in the name of justice, in the name of goodness..." pg 315.

This is telling enough. And we must not forget that Egypt is not only home of Muslims, there are 9% Coptic Christians and 1% other Christians, according to http://https://www.cia.gov/index.html
In 1980 Islam was declared state religion. What about the 10% Christians? The percent of 83,688,164 people is over 8 mln people, this is not a handful of souls, those are more people than in whole Bulgaria....don't they deserve a choice? I'm sure that there is a fair amount of agnostics, atheists, etc - what about them? It's one thing to live in a secular state and be a religious minority, completely different one to like in theocratic/religious-govenrment state and be such.





Edited by Don Quixote - 17-Feb-2012 at 01:04

Nothing is guarantee for anything in our human reality. But dictatorship is bad - I lived in one. I'd take the worst day in my life in democratic US or chaotic ruined trying-to-be-democratic Bulgaria than my best day in communist Bulgaria.

Democracy is like love - hard to keep, have to balance it all the time at the tip of a knife, can fun to other things, but that's life - there are no easy ways. If a way seems simple and clear and easy - it's a way to some kind of hell.

That's what I'm afraid of, BM. 

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis Originally posted by Baal Melqart You guys have no idea how bad this is... you just wait and see! The copts in Egypt are going to become like second-class citizens and their rights will be taken away at the glimpse of an eye. ou guys should know that under such conditions, a group of 2 Muslims or more could testify in court against a Copt and claim that he converted to Islam. If the judge accepts this ruling even if the Copt denies this, he will be considered a Muslim (legally). Then if he denies it happened they will consider him an apostate and he could serve a very long term in jail, worst case scenario... death penalty!   Ah Baal ole son....you do me a diservice. I've been studying and researching, observing and analyzing; and even at one point, over a decade of years, preparing contingency action plans, reference this stuff, within the region, for 40 years.   And it can indeed get a lot worse. This is Isalmic fundamentalist fervor at it's best. And the likes of which has not been seen since the days of the Caliphate...or their counter to the Crusades..as you well know.   Best bet?   Keep them Tomahawks handy.

I think the Egyptians basically flushed their hard-earned revolution down the drain like it was TP. That's of course if votes weren't rigged to begin with, but the general feel tells me people really wanted these fundamentalists to come to power. All I can say is that there needs to be another revolution very soon or everything is going down the drain, no exageration here.



These are the people who are in power now... No comment guys!

its amazing how euro genocidal maniacs have gone around the world just to kill, rob, and even forcibly  intoxicate other people but can still shamelessly point fingers

Edited by eurokiller - 21-Feb-2012 at 18:35

Originally posted by eurokiller its amazing how euro genocidal maniacs have gone around the world just to kill, rob, and even forcibly  intoxicate other people but can still shamelessly point fingers also the Ottomans rob, murder and starve people to death like the euro terrorists of the 18th century to present ... Bengal, the richest most affluent place on earth was robbed until people started dying on the streets by the british ... perhaps the Ottomans were too kind and didn't give them what they deserved?

Whom are you calling "euro genocidal maniacs", again? This is a forum with rules for civility, keep that in mind, please. This is a second informal warning; next step will be a formal warning.

The Ottomans did absolutely the same like whoever you call "18 century terrorists". They raped the Balkans, forcibly converted thousands of Christians, /giving then the choice between the Quran and the sword/, introduced the practice of the "dervishme" to the Balkan Christians to punish them for their religious choice, massacred the Thracian Bulgarians, /that's why there isn't a Bulgarian minority in Turkey, but there is Turkish minority in Bulgaria/ and genocided the Armenians. So, whoever you are glorifying is the same as whoever you are villifying.


Edited by Don Quixote - 21-Feb-2012 at 20:24