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Pagan origins of Christmas

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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Pagan origins of Christmas
    Posted: 16-Dec-2011 at 21:53
Noel bases on astromical reality as Nevruz. Days start to get longer and the first rising point of the sun starts to change at the morning of 25th December. The longest night is not just 21st December. It goes on till 23rd-24th December

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solstice





Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 09:21
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 11:02

There is a long text about the similarites between Christmas Tree and Yalda Tree in ChristmasIsALie website: http://www.christmasisalie.com/thetree.htm

More info: http://persia.edublogs.org/files/2009/03/article-christmas-is-an-old-tradtion-from-persia-a.pdf

In one aspect Persians decorated the Yalda (Yule, Christmas) tree so that it represents our solar system. On the top of the tree was the Sun (i.e.the symbol of Mehr, Mithra) and under it, around the tree, there were other decorations presenting the planets and stars (as today may in some Christmas tree decorations be seen). Persians put also two silver/golden ribbons on the tree indicating the Milky Way i.e. a galactic dust (in Persian راه شیری, in Finnish Linnunrata) that we can also somehow see as decorations in today's Christmas trees. The younger girls had their wishes symbolically wrapped in colorful silk cloth and hung them on the tree with lots of presents for Mitra, to answer their prayers.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 11:12

It is interesting to know that there is also an Islamic version of Yalda tree, some Shia muslims believe that Yalda was the orginial birthday of Imam Mahdi (the promised saviour) in the solar calendar, so they also decorate a tree at this night but on the top there is Allah (الله) word, instead of the symbol of Mithra.

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 11:29
Was it always light on tree?Where did it come?Candles or ancient stone&pottery oil lamp?Cause YaLDa tree says it was light on tree! It gifts light to mortal one.Yes,it is obvious that light gift was most wanted:Do I live the next sunrise?Will Sun rise again?
If this was right phonetic YaLDa=It,mortal spark(light),gifts!(again all translations are my own and not related with forum authorities).Big smile
P.S.
We call this tree "Elka".In Serbo-Croatian is "JeLKa".Second one have preserved one of original forms.That means you can describe event with different words always of course!Now days words in "slavic" languages were once sentences.Real meaning you need to find combining last syllable inside.Big smile

Edited by medenaywe - 21-Dec-2011 at 13:53
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 15:51
There was no light without fire in the ancient time, so people couldn't illuminate the tree but they usually used fire altars alongside the evergreen trees, a bas-relief from the famous Mithraeum at Dura Europos (Syria-Iraq border), shows this thing:
 
 
 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 16:02
Who is man on horse that kills the snake?Mithra?Tell me about his supporters pictured on bas-relief.
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 17:19
Originally posted by medenaywe

Who is man on horse that kills the snake?Mithra?Tell me about his supporters pictured on bas-relief.


It is Mithra, but he is not riding a horse but a bull. The Mithra that I know of, the one practised by Roman soldiers usually represents Mithra as slaying a bull.




Edited by Baal Melqart - 17-Dec-2011 at 17:22
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 19:31

I've not had time to make a wreath this year. Who can tell me why holly and other evergreen plants like ivy and mistletoe were so important for pagan winter rituals?
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Dec-2011 at 20:24
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

There is a long text about the similarites between Christmas Tree and Yalda Tree in ChristmasIsALie website: http://www.christmasisalie.com/thetree.htm

More info: http://persia.edublogs.org/files/2009/03/article-christmas-is-an-old-tradtion-from-persia-a.pdf

In one aspect Persians decorated the Yalda (Yule, Christmas) tree so that it represents our solar system. On the top of the tree was the Sun (i.e.the symbol of Mehr, Mithra) and under it, around the tree, there were other decorations presenting the planets and stars (as today may in some Christmas tree decorations be seen). Persians put also two silver/golden ribbons on the tree indicating the Milky Way i.e. a galactic dust (in Persian راه شیری, in Finnish Linnunrata) that we can also somehow see as decorations in today's Christmas trees. The younger girls had their wishes symbolically wrapped in colorful silk cloth and hung them on the tree with lots of presents for Mitra, to answer their prayers.



Wow, I watched the video embedded on the site and it presents christmas almost like devil worship! Please everyone watch it and tell me what you think. It's interesting the way a scary movie is, gives you the heeby jeebies but makes you want to watch more!
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2011 at 01:30
Originally posted by Baal Melqart


Wow, I watched the video embedded on the site and it presents christmas almost like devil worship! Please everyone watch it and tell me what you think. It's interesting the way a scary movie is, gives you the heeby jeebies but makes you want to watch more!


Christmas is one of the oldest and natural festival in world. Perspective which is in the video, is wrong. However it just said that it has pagan origin
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2011 at 13:10
I think I read somewhere that if nothing else, the birthday of Sol Invictus, on 25 December, is responsible for the date. Sol Invictus coming from the Romans. It would be great to find out if this is so, and the timeline as other traditions were added on.


What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2011 at 16:34
It is interesting to know about Yule Clog/Log.
 
As you read here: http://www.persia.org/Culture/nowruz.html Iranians believe that the first creation was the sky, a big chunk of stone high above.
 
It is believed that at the longest night of the year the sun-god Mithra was born out of this solid stone, the Persian word for Clog/Log is Kolokh (a big chunk of stone or wood), of course as it mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ADanube there can be a Celtic origin for this word, like Old Irish Cloch (stone/rock): http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cloch
 
Anyway Yule Clog or Yalda Kolokh could be a symbol of this thing.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2011 at 16:53
"From foot answer" or "from footprint answer" is Sun here and his name was Dze!Very rare sound in Slavic language.Remains with this syllables are presented only in archaic words in F.Y.R.O.M.But if I put after -US will receive DzeUS=Zeus!Very nice forensic we have here.This i learn from words&language i am working within:Mother Earth is sleeping by night and we see her body(?) above or cattle(?) that carries her,A  Moon. In the morning he starts walking with her stone foots on stone sky:She sparkles all around as biggest ever flint stone(Sun).Thats our Sun, it have been known as "Zeus" further in "history".It was "from foot answer"literary(foot's answer)!I forgot we are living on earth's head!(or plate!)(there are 3 types of genitive in this language,at least,therefore it is hard to convert them in English).3 genitives has Serbo-Croatian today to reminds us!Big smile


Edited by medenaywe - 19-Dec-2011 at 16:05
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Dec-2011 at 19:13
From what i've read, the holly represents men and the ivy represents women. Evergreen plants were sacred because they represented new life during winter, a time of death
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Dec-2011 at 19:11
Mistletoe and wine both had prominent roles during the pagan Solstice. Wine was part of the midwinter feast while potions containing mistletoe were used to incapacitate sacrificial victims so the druid could slit their throats
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2011 at 05:22
Has been YaLDa tree of eternal light&Fire?Wood from trees have always been basic source of fire.We still  use prehistoric representation about it,I believe.First sentences that have described them we use today as
words for object&event it represented once.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2012 at 03:07
Had been used by Mithra,spear&arrow in descriptions?
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2012 at 08:27
It looks as head of spear&knife on pictures here:(he targets anyway is inside his name!)
http://www.crystalinks.com/mithraism.html
My early died grandpa i have never seen was "DyMithra"=admire's Mithra.In "slavic" it sounds as Dimitar:
http://www.forvo.com/word/dimitar/



Edited by medenaywe - 04-Jan-2012 at 07:43
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  Quote Vladd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jan-2012 at 08:49
I remember reading somewhere that decorating trees dates back to when Germanic barbarians draped the entrails etc of their defeated enemies over trees as an offering to their gods. However I have never been able to find another reference to this so either I am confusing sources or I read a mistaken piece of text.
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