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Nick1986
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Topic: Pagan origins of Christmas Posted: 10-Dec-2011 at 19:12 |
It may shock some of you to learn that Jesus may not have actually been born in December. December 25 was originally the birthday of Egyptian God Horus, a popular deity for Roman soldiers. On campaign the Romans introduced elements of this cult to Europe, combined with local Celtic rituals and imagery. The gift-giving and games came from the Roman feast of Saturnalia, and mistletoe was a sacred plant for the Druids. As for the fattened goose, this was originally a whole roast ox sacrificed at the new year to the pagan gods and eaten to bring good luck
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 10-Dec-2011 at 20:45 |
I knew about that, apparrently the church was fed up with people celebrating the pagan ritual so they made christmas to be celebrated on the same day. It seems they fought paganism through assimilation.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 05:53 |
I really didn't know it, if archaeologists didn't find any Mithraeums all around the Roman empire, like the one in London, if we didn't know anything about ancient Romans beliefs, if ancient sources didn't mention that december 25 was originally the birthday of sun-god Mithras (the winter solstice, the longest night of the year), if we didn't know that Christmas was also called "Yule", ... but it could be possible to know Iranians still celebrate the birthday of Mithra which is called "Yuleda/Yalda" at the same time.
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Menumorut
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 06:03 |
Originally posted by Baal Melqart
I knew about that, apparrently the church was fed up with people celebrating the pagan ritual so they made christmas to be celebrated on the same day. It seems they fought paganism through assimilation.
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That's correct. While the existence of Jesus can't be proved, the history of some of church's practices is better known. The date for celebration of Jesus's birth was intentionally established to coincide with the biggest pagan festivals.
As for the resemblances with Mithras' cult, it must be said that the Persian Mithras was different than Roman Mithras. Roman Mithras was influenced by Christianity, not the other way around.
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medenaywe
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 06:18 |
Using this logic,Julius Augustus Caesar was ex. Mithra believer.Inside "slavic" countries all around the Balkans,we celebrate on 25 December KoLeDe....Somehow it's name says me,it was connected with Sun solstice circle!Sun's(Circle's) image praise/s(you,he/she/it).
Edited by medenaywe - 29-Dec-2011 at 13:30
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 07:14 |
Originally posted by Menumorut
As for the resemblances with Mithras' cult, it must be said that the Persian Mithras was different than Roman Mithras. Roman Mithras was influenced by Christianity, not the other way around. |
It is not about Persian or Roman Mithras but about the longest night of the year and the rebirth of the sun, I believe it could be really a meaningless thing for both Romans and Persian and other people who lived in the Middle East or southern Europe, ancient Iranian sources talk about 18 hours of night and only 6 hours of daylight at this day, in this situation, you can imagine that the sun is reborn.
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medenaywe
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 07:31 |
Also will fear Sun never comes again!Imagine it,Cyrus!YuLeDe=Fearsome Image praises!
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 07:54 |
There can be certainly a common origin for Iranian Yuleda and Slavic Koleda, but there can be also an original Semitic origin, like the Hebrew/Arabic verb for "to be born".
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medenaywe
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 08:19 |
Both words praise the day with shortest light period in the year:first one praises the Sun revival,other one reminds us about consequences with fear!People that "invented" Christianity had belonged on both groups Egyptian&Persian and screenplay dating had started earlier than Rome happened on Earth.I believed idea about this had been ignited with Alexander the Third.Among the rest nobody knew that he had started first official state combining of population:Egyptian&Persian.This one could have pronounced themselves Romans.In fact RoMe/RoMa had Egyptian roots.Name speaks:root's of mine.Both groups had practiced pagan religions.
Edited by medenaywe - 21-Dec-2011 at 13:45
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 09:30 |
Bu what about the other pagan festivals. As I remember Mithraism wasn't the only religion common throughout the Roman Empire. There was the celtic Druid cult, Roman paganism..etc
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 14:06 |
Do you know what the Persian word for "Mithraeum" is? My another thread about Shahr (Old Persian Xshathra) and Sharab (Xshathrapa) can be a hint.
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medenaywe
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 14:09 |
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medenaywe
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 14:22 |
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri
Do you know what the Persian word for "Mithraeum" is? My another thread about Shahr (Old Persian Xshathra) and Sharab (Xshathrapa) can be a hint. |
You have been asked by me cause of that.If we lived Ancient Persia times,you would have been Mithra's Throne!Am I right?
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Nick1986
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Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 19:03 |
The Christmas Tree (and Yule Log) apparently originated from a Germanic practise where you would fell a whole tree and drag it inside to keep the fire burning for the whole winter
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Nick1986
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Posted: 13-Dec-2011 at 19:09 |
In Spain Nativity scenes often feature a representation of a peasant taking a crap to fertilise the earth. I'm not sure what this custom's origins are, but it doesn't sound very Christian
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unclefred
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Posted: 13-Dec-2011 at 20:30 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
The Christmas Tree (and Yule Log) apparently originated from a Germanic practise where you would fell a whole tree and drag it inside to keep the fire burning for the whole winter
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They must have had very large houses.
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 13-Dec-2011 at 20:37 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
In Spain Nativity scenes often feature a representation of a peasant taking a crap to fertilise the earth. I'm not sure what this custom's origins are, but it doesn't sound very Christian
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This is too good to be true!
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Nick1986
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Posted: 14-Dec-2011 at 19:22 |
Originally posted by unclefred
Originally posted by Nick1986
The Christmas Tree (and Yule Log) apparently originated from a Germanic practise where you would fell a whole tree and drag it inside to keep the fire burning for the whole winter
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They must have had very large houses. |
Iron Age houses were quite big. The chief of the tribe usually lived in a big feasting hall to demonstrate his ability to provide food for his men. Smaller dwellings like the round-houses were quite tall, with more than enough room for a tree inside (and any livestock that hadn't yet been eaten)
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 14-Dec-2011 at 20:32 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
Originally posted by unclefred
Originally posted by Nick1986
The Christmas Tree (and Yule Log) apparently originated from a Germanic practise where you would fell a whole tree and drag it inside to keep the fire burning for the whole winter
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They must have had very large houses. |
Iron Age houses were quite big. The chief of the tribe usually lived in a big feasting hall to demonstrate his ability to provide food for his men. Smaller dwellings like the round-houses were quite tall, with more than enough room for a tree inside (and any livestock that hadn't yet been eaten)
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Interesting, so did they keep the livestock in separate rooms or just inside (I'm not even sure if they had rooms...)?
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Nick1986
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Posted: 16-Dec-2011 at 19:12 |
Iron Age houses had just one big room with a fire at the center. I think people shared this space with their animals. It must have stunk, but at least they kept warm
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