Is EU christian?

Originally posted by Seko Plus:� Statue of Pope Innocent X sure was Christian!

Stockholm is full of statues of old warriorkings and the Army museum has the largest battle-trophy collection in the world, but no one would call Sweden militaristic or aggressive today.


"Take that, ye knavish Frogs..."

Edited by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by ak�nc� You said it yourself,museums.Working under the pope is diffrent,having an army museum is diffrent

*Sigh*, I'll make another example. In the head church of Stockholm there's a large Medieval statue of some Catholic saint. Even though Sweden became zealotry Protestant more then 300 years ago the Catholic statue was still kept. What does this tell you? I'll answer anyway; just because there's a statue somewhere it doesn't mean more than that no one found it ugly enough to remove. That picture was probably taken in some old building, where things generally are kept as they were, no matter the reality today...

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Originally posted by Seko Plus:  Statue of Pope Innocent X sure was Christian! Stockholm is full of statues of old warriorkings and the Army museum has the largest battle-trophy collection in the world, but no one would call Sweden militaristic or aggressive today.  "Take that, ye knavish Frogs..."

It isnt the same thing. We are talking about EU as being Christian, not Sweden. EU is a union which is based on Christian civilization and history. There can be statues of popes, and this doesnt make EU a christian club. But if there is huge a statue of Pope Sixtus II, who hated Turks and Muslims, whose main goal was to get rid of Asian barbarian Turks and who believed in Christian superiority, in the main EU assembly and all countries sign the EU constitution in front of this statue. This shows how secular EU is.

Dont get me wrong, I respect to the believs and values of EU, as being Christian, I just cant consider us, our country's national pride and identity as being European. This would be like categorizing Russia in Asian countries classification, even worse. And to see our presidents signing the EU constitution in front of a pope's statue who hated us is really disgraceful and shameful. We cant just sell our national dignity for some EU funds...

Relics and Statues have symbolic meanings by those who created them and those who show respect to them. The symbolism of a pope in the EU congress has meaning. I would like to know what it stands for?

Edited by Seko

We have a saying Komnenos , in Greece : What's yours , is mine and what is mine , it's still mine....

Draw ur conclusions...

Isk.

Originally posted by Seko Without any pollyannish mumbo jumbo, could someone explain how a huge Christian�statue hovers over the EU meeting hall. Is that not a reflection of religious iconism and symbolism?

It's not the "EU meeting hall". If you had looked at the link you provided yourself you'd have noticed it's an old statue in the same room in the palace on Capitol Hill, Rome, where the Constitution treaty was signed of traditional reasons last October (the Treaty of Rome establishing the EU was signed in the same room in 1957). It doesn't mean a sh*t, except that they wanted some posh surroundings to sign the treaty in 1957, to make it more ceremonial and impressive. Also, some might have failed to notice that only half of the EU are Catholics, and if indeed all members would have been true to their faith, religious zealots, the Protestants would rather have signed the treaty in the Mosque of Omar than under the gaze of some pope.

Edited by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Originally posted by Seko Without any pollyannish mumbo jumbo, could someone explain how a huge Christian statue hovers over the EU meeting hall. Is that not a reflection of religious iconism and symbolism? It's not the "EU meeting hall". If you had looked at the link you provided yourself you'd have noticed it's an old statue in the same room in the palace on Capitol Hill, Rome, where the Constitution treaty was signed of traditional reasons last October (the Treaty of Rome establishing the EU was signed in the same room in 1957). It doesn't mean a sh*t, except that they wanted some posh surroundings to sign the treaty in 1957, to make it more ceremonial and impressive. Also, some might have failed to notice that only half of the EU are Catholics, and if indeed all members would have been true to their faith, religious zealots, the Protestants would rather have signed the treaty in the Mosque of Omar than under the gaze of some pope.

 

 

What a relief! Thanks for the info. As I searched somemore I ran across this:  ROME For all the grandiose speeches about political unity at the signing of the European Union's first constitution in Rome on Oct. 29, it was a bronze sculpture that spoke volumes about the bloc's current identity crisis.

Instead, the statue was a reminder of Europe's spiritual past at a time when many conservative critics are contending that secularism is getting out of hand. Their suspicions were reinforced when a Roman Catholic Italian minister withdrew his candidacy for a post with the European Commission after being criticized for calling homosexuality a sin and saying that women were better off married and at home.

Because some of the union's pioneers were Catholics who believed the Continent's common Christian roots stretched across national boundaries, the Vatican has long supported the experiment.

"The European Parliament probably would have rejected Bush, but the American people have instead voted for him," Rocco Buttiglione, the Italian minister forced to step aside after failing to gain the support of his Parliament, said Wednesday in a statement. "America has shown itself more religious and more attentive to values than Europe."

But still, this kind of art is present almost everywhere in Europe. You cannot strip a historical building from its artwork just to appear secular. Secularism has to be proven in action and in the laws and practices of a country.

Anyway I see your point but I believe you're overreacting...

Originally posted by Komnenos What about Galatasaray and all the other Turkish clubs playing in the European Championsleague then? I'm sure Turkish football fans would be delighted if your clubs had to play Katmandu United and FC Pnom Penh in the Asian Competion, rather than Real Madrid or Chelsea. So be consistent then , demand Turkeys withdrawal from UEFA, it would be easier to qualify for the World Cup anyway.

I want to remind you that teams like Hapoel Haifa (Israel), Beitar Jarusalem (Israel), Astana FK (Kazakhstan) and Dinamo Tbilisi also play in European championships. So lets take Kazakhstan, a country which has an eastern border to Altai mountains and Mongolia, to EU. I believe they would be glad to be accepted in EU and recieving all those funds just because their league is included in UEFA.

*Mod edit*

Insults on religious leaders deleted. Watch it!

Edited by Yiannis