Is EU christian?

Originally posted by Catt Originally posted by hugoestr Actually, getting religion after a disaster is a very American thing to do I think you are letting your self-denigrating nature as an american cloud your thought here. It is the christian thing to do. Yes, perhaps many are not being the best christians but there is a large number of good christians who are simply not into organized religion or have faith in the church at all.

As a proud, patriotic American, I have noticed that Americans get religion when there is a big disaster. A new wave of piety hit the U.S. after 9-11. This has not been the case after recent terrorists acts in Europe.

Now, if the question on the thread is, are most European nominally Christian? The answer is yes. Are they Christian the way secular Americans participate in Christianity? Probably. Are they Christian the way evangelicals participate in Christianity? Probably not. The answer to these questions still lies with the Europeans.

Originally posted by hugoestr Originally posted by Cywr The un-religiousness of Europeans is grossly overhyped IMHO, most Europeans are religious, they are just quieter and more private about it. That is a very nice way to be religious.

Yup, a huge imporvement from the past IMHO.

It would have to be a pretty big tradegy.
But people still sort of go religious on you when stuff happens, it was the Tsunami for some, even 9/11 got some people talking about their religion again. But they do it different, i think there is an obvious cultural rift between many European and many Americans there, namely how religion occupies their lives, and how it interacts and shapes public/shared space.

Many Europeans (I'd dare to say the majority) affirm they believe in something metaphysical, but not any of the "positive" or "historical" religions.

I'm not so sure, many still cling to them as labels, i think the last UK census showed that, for all the talk of Brits being non-religious, a very high percentage still opted to select a religion on the census forms.

Other state they are Catholic, Protestant, etc. but they immediately add they do not attend functions on a regular basids, and/or that they do not agree with their church on some certain subjects . . . which usually are about half of that faith fundamental tenets

Preciesly, very disestablished in other words, but this is 200-300 years in the making in many countries, but some like to pretend its new, with the whole blame it on rock music/TV/*insert bogeyman here*.
Church attendance figures are useless IMHO, and used inconsistantly, especialy by certain journalists all to often. Sure, church attedances are down, but in the Netherlands mosque attendances have been declining for the last 5 years too, and in parts of the UK they have too (though this maybe that in some places there are simply too many), and regionaly church attendances are still very high.
Fact is everyone is less intrested in going to church/mosque/whatever on a regular basis, they may have busier lives, alternative focus points for social/community gatherings and so on.

Cat,

I think that Cywr has already said that we both were right and we both were wrong. Yes, some people have gone back to their Church, but no, not in the way Americans do it.

But let's assume that you are right about Europeans being harden by past experiences. How bad would it have to be for them to get religion as Americans understand it? You already stated that terrorists acts in the last 30 years are not good enough. I assume that the aftermath of WWII wasn't either, since their societies only have goten more secular ever since the war ended.

So would you say that it has to be bigger than WWII for them to get religion in the American way?

But Cywr went on to say that they don't practice it the way Americans do.

But they do it different, i think there is an obvious cultural rift between many European and many Americans there, namely how religion occupies their lives, and how it interacts and shapes public/shared space.

Serge also says something very similar to what Cwyr said:

Religious, yes. However, they usually tend to follow personal interpretations of religion. Many Europeans (I'd dare to say the majority) affirm they believe in something metaphysical, but not any of the "positive" or "historical" religions. Other state they are Catholic, Protestant, etc. but they immediately add they do not attend functions on a regular basids, and/or that they do not agree with their church on some certain subjects . . . which usually are about half of that faith fundamental tenets

This "turn" to religion is very different from what Americans do. In fact, many fundamentalist evangelicals would not consider most of these people and their practices Christian at all.

On the other hand, a huge number of Americans embrace spiritual awakenings with an almost regular pattern throughout its history. So far, this seems to be a peculiarity of Americans, but I admit I may be wrong about this. If anyone has counter examples, I will appreciate them.

I think that they do counter what you said.

Let's remember. You stated this:

If a major catastrophe or war hit the continent, it would become very Christian very quickly.

So far, I was been reacting to this line. Recently, you posted this:

Cywr wrote: It would have to be a pretty big tragedy. But people still sort of go religious on you when stuff happens, it was the Tsunami for some, even 9/11 got some people talking about their religion again. That is all I was talking about, and Christianity would be the choice in Europe.

It seems that you are saying that Cywr's quote confirms your statement. But Cywr and Sergi go on to qualify that this is in a very personal expression, which doesn't match American's conception of becoming religious is.

My quotes are relevant because they shows that their going back to religion is not the same as becoming very Christian.

Let's examine another part of your last two posts. You first stated above that what Cywr said is what you are talking about. This implies that you are right because your prediction is actually happening right now.

However, now you tell me that his and Sergi's clarifications are not valid because this only describes what is happening right now.

So, both secularism and the abandonment of secularism are occurring at the same time. This is a contradiction.

But I will go along with you, and move back the discussion of what is possible. In that case, I am waiting for your explanation for why Europe didn't become very Christian very quickly after WWII. Then explain why if it didn�t happen in the worse war that Europe has live through, it will happen in the next big event.


Edited by hugoestr

Originally posted by ak�nc� I read in the newspapers that the new pope says that EU is christian and turkey should not be allowed

The new pope also said that instead of joining the EU Turkey should go make a pact with Arabic countries.

Could you provide the source for the Pope's position on Turkey entering the E.U. I want to send it to my wife.

But they are not not becoming very Christian very quickly in any of the posts that I quoted. It sticks.

Now the last example that you gave is totally believable for me

Of course, just as it has constantly been the case in our strange conversation in this thread, we have to see what Europeans say about that.

Most Catholics had a soft spot for John Paul II. Let me look for info about religion in Europe and I will report back the findings.