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The Vandals

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Vandals
    Posted: 03-Oct-2011 at 21:38

300 years before the Vikings, Scandinavia was inhabited by fierce warriors known as Vandals. In the fifth century AD, they swept south, sacked Rome and established a kingdom in North Africa until they were driven out by Belisarius. In the 19th century excavations at Vendel unearthed many ship-burials. Among the grave goods were helmets very similar to the type found at Sutton Hoo, and those worn by the Vandals' Viking descendents. Is this evidence the Saxons and Vikings were once part of the same culture? Or did the two societies trade metalwork?
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 04:24

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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 11:41
Depends on which theory your backing.
 
If you prefer the association with the Vendel culture-period of Uppland Sweden (essentially late Iron age) then your in.
 
If not.... then you go with the Przeworsk culture and association with Slavic, eastern Germanic, tribes among them the Lugii. The Roman historian/businessman Jordanes ca. 6th ce stated they spoke a german 'Gothic' tongue. The best translation there and then translated was old Teddy Mommsen's.
 
otoh, if you go by the varying etymologies of the name possible ya can apply them to regions in what now is Norway, Sweden, Denmark and eastern Poland.
 
And to confuse it further they have also been identified as possible kinsmen of the Wends, Lusatians and Poles. Me I am going with Jordan's (he was there) and that theory involving the Gothic associations with the Przeworsk culture-Luigii (which may have been their very ancient name).
 
As to intercultural relations between them and Saxons? Quite probable. As if ya accept either theory... both places them in the geo-proximity of them and the Angles and the Jutes. But it also does the Wends Lusatians and Poles.
 
 


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 04-Oct-2011 at 11:42
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 13:38
In last version on Discovery,Vandals were religious people,that migrated in Africa disputed the faith of rest
of Roman Christian church!Your versions are similar with War craft.Next version follows after commercials.
I know i am wrong but what about them?Big smile
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 20:35
What was their religion? Didn't they believe in Thor and Woden like their Viking descendents, the Franks, and the pagan Saxons?

Edited by Nick1986 - 04-Oct-2011 at 20:35
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2011 at 21:42
Originally posted by Nick1986

What was their religion? Didn't they believe in Thor and Woden like their Viking descendents, the Franks, and the pagan Saxons?


Turkish vikipedia says firstly Arianism, then Catholic and there is some information in english viki too

In Helderic(460AD – 533AD) time, Arian Vandals became Catholic. Maybe they believed cermenic gods just in early period

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilderic

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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2011 at 21:21
In the English-speaking world we continue to honor the gods of the Germanic pagans: Tuesday is the day of Tyr, Wednesday is the day of Odin, Thursday is the day of Thor, and Friday is the day of Frey. Saturday is named after the Greek god Saturn, but originally it was called Laurdag: Bath day
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2011 at 00:16
Ollios makes a good point there.... as iirc.... they were Catholics by they time they ventured into Africa. I don't recall about Gaul or Spain. At the sack of Rome in 455AD I believe they were still pagans. Clarification anyone?

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 06-Oct-2011 at 00:18
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2011 at 02:21
Nick,they were Christians with true faith.Ancient Amish community maybe they were.Either behind this story stands biggest pilgrimage have ever happened in Biblical land of Jesus Christ,or pilgrimage was cover for forced migration?!?Whatever they were,Vandals were not they,but those that convinced them and sent
them in exile.


Edited by medenaywe - 06-Oct-2011 at 02:24
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  Quote Ollios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2011 at 10:48
What a pathetic!!! you were a nation, kingdom and civilization. but future people create a word as vandalism which has just negative meaning by using your name.


Edited by Ollios - 06-Oct-2011 at 10:49
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2011 at 11:21
Yes alas it's an association. But one that has been developed as a result of their actions as they migrated. So to the Huns. At this point this is how they are remembered. History, that shy and fickle lady of bitchiness on occassion, has spoken.
 
I can not gainsay her 15 centuries later.Wink
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2011 at 15:29
Originally posted by Ollios

What a pathetic!!! you were a nation, kingdom and civilization. but future people create a word as vandalism which has just negative meaning by using your name.
 
 
 
"The pump don't work cause the Vandals took the handle".  Bob Dylan
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote ConradWeiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2011 at 19:15
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

Ollios makes a good point there.... as iirc.... they were Catholics by they time they ventured into Africa. I don't recall about Gaul or Spain. At the sack of Rome in 455AD I believe they were still pagans. Clarification anyone?


The Vandals weren't Catholics when they invaded North Africa. They were Arians. In fact, there was quite a bit of tension and conflict between the native Catholics and their new Arian overlords. Eventually the two groups tolerated each other more, and we even saw some Vandals convert to Catholicism, but that wasn't until closer to the tail end of their reign there.

Rome wasn't sacked until after the Vandals had invaded Africa. They put to good use the Roman fleet that they had captured and used it to raid Italy and eventually Rome itself. So they were Arians then as well.

Mind, I did find some information about Catholic Vandals converting to Arianism during their stay in Spain. Possibly a result of Visigothic influence.


Edited by ConradWeiser - 06-Oct-2011 at 20:54
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2011 at 00:44
Good update and clarification..thanks.
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  Quote Karalem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2011 at 09:55
sir Isaak Newton followed Arianism. Could it be that he was a Vandal?
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2011 at 20:29
Originally posted by Karalem

sir Isaak Newton followed Arianism. Could it be that he was a Vandal?


I doubt Isaac Newton followed Arianism, I mean the religion pretty much vanished some time in the 3rd century when it was denounced as heresy by the church.
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  Quote ConradWeiser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Oct-2011 at 10:56
Originally posted by Baal Melqart

Originally posted by Karalem

sir Isaak Newton followed Arianism. Could it be that he was a Vandal?


I doubt Isaac Newton followed Arianism, I mean the religion pretty much vanished some time in the 3rd century when it was denounced as heresy by the church.


I kind of thought he was joking. In any case, being Arian doesn't necessitate you being a Vandal. The Goths were also Arian. Doesn't mean they're secretly Vandals.

As to Newton's views, there is an entire wikipedia article on the matter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Newton%27s_religious_views
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-May-2012 at 19:39
Originally posted by medenaywe

Nick,they were Christians with true faith.Ancient Amish community maybe they were.Either behind this story stands biggest pilgrimage have ever happened in Biblical land of Jesus Christ,or pilgrimage was cover for forced migration?!?Whatever they were,Vandals were not they,but those that convinced them and sent
them in exile.

They don't sound much like Amish to me. Their savagery and love of war made them feared throughout the empire: it's no coincidence the destruction of property is still referred to as "vandalism"
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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2012 at 13:05
Does this thread really belong in the Ancient Mediterranean
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  Quote Diviacus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-May-2012 at 13:58
Originally posted by Nick1986

Their savagery and love of war made them feared throughout the empire: it's no coincidence the destruction of property is still referred to as "vandalism"
They were not different from other "barbarians". The only reason why Henri Gregoire chose this term in 1794 is because they were responsible of the last sack of Rome (among barbarians), and because the Visigoths, which had been also responsible of a sack of Rome, had then been put in a good light by late antiquity authors thanks to their Visigothic kingdom in Spain.
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