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AK-47 or M-16? NATO or Warsaw? |
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Turkic10 
Knight 
Joined: 01-Jul-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 65 |
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 Topic: AK-47 or M-16? NATO or Warsaw?Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 18:59 |
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Here's some pictures, one showing the present Canadian army med. range sniper rifle and one similar to the new one which will replace it.
8.6mm / .338 cal. |
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 15:41 |
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The best short-range assault weapons availibile in my opinion are from
the Stoner arms production company. They produce a basic recreation of
the M4A2 Carbine that uses the AK-47's hard-hitting M43 rounds and uses
the same magazines.
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 15:37 |
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Well I have to agree with you, nothing can compare to the 12.7mm
(except .50 BMG, otherwise known as just 12.5mm) at extreme distance
shooting. I also agree with you, you Canadians are very fine marksmen.
All I am saying though is there needs to be an assault rifle that can
be flexibile in its design so it can be used not only as an infantry
weapon but as a support weapon and perhaps a sniper weapon. The only
firearm that I believe could do this would be the G3A4 using a 90 round
drum magazine, collapsable stock, and a medium range scope.
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Turkic10
Knight
Joined: 01-Jul-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 65 |
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 15:23 |
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When it comes to sniping at long distances this is the one: 'Big Mac McMillans Tac-50 Our Canadian snipers have been used by the US forces in Afghanistan on occasion. |
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 14:54 |
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There should be a caliber that gives the knock-down power of the 7.62 x
39 M43 with the high velocity of 5.56 x 45 NATO, like a 7.62 x 42 or
8mm x 43.
Even though these calibers do not exist, I believe they would perform very well. |
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 14:49 |
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In other words....
Gewher Model 3... Great long range Heavy recoil Large caliber Very accurate Very reliable VERY large and some-what heavy AK-47... Very common Extremely reliable Some-what accurate Cheap and common ammuntion Exellent close battle rifle. 7.62 x 39 M1943, basically a shortend .30 round. Lacks long range abilities. M-16... EXTREMELY accurate Pretty reliable (not older versions though...) High-velocity long range 5.56 x 45 caliber. Expensive Exellent infantry med-long range sniper rifle as well as the G3. |
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 14:42 |
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That's a Stummgewher model 1944. It's 7.92x33mm Kurtz. The design of
the AK was roughly based on this, but not entirely. Note the AK's
buttstock is closer to the pistol grip and covered pistons.
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Turkic10
Knight
Joined: 01-Jul-2005 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 65 |
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 14:06 |
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There's some speculation that the AK-47 owes some of it's design to this German late war design.
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Posted: 10-Dec-2005 at 05:22 |
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I voted for the AK-47 and its countless variants and spinoffs. It is the most successful AR design in the world. The same design has been used as a basis for light machine guns, submachine guns, bullpup ARs, and sniper rifles.
http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/models/list |
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arch.buff
Colonel 
Joined: 18-Oct-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 606 |
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Posted: 08-Dec-2005 at 21:44 |
The US used the M-14 in early vietnam and used the M-16 in later years. And believe me the M-16 itself killed far more people holding the AK, than the other way around, eventhough it wasnt even used for the whole span of the war. Edited by arch.buff |
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 2112 |
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Posted: 08-Dec-2005 at 19:43 |
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Yes, the G3 is a real Assault rifle, more powerfull ammo than the 5.56 mm and of course, more accurate than the 7.62 soviet. However, the limited 20 rounds magazine and the the recoil on full auto mode makes it not really good option for closer combat. Edited by Jalisco Lancer |
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xristar
Chieftain 
Joined: 05-Nov-2005 Location: Greece Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028 |
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Posted: 08-Dec-2005 at 13:20 |
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Yiannis, probably the G36 will equip the actual combatants, and the G3 the supportive units. I don't know if the service will be reduced to 6-8 months. Karamanlis had said before the elections that it will reduce to 6 months, but the Army does not like it, as it will cost seriously to the readiness of the army. I heard that the service was planned to be reduced to 11 months, but the Minister of Defence has not spoken about it yet. |
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Hector Victorious
Samurai 
Joined: 01-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 132 |
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 17:32 |
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I Actually heard those weapons are extremly heavy aroun 18-20 lbs! But the Grenade leanucher offers a lot of new ablititys
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Genghis
Caliph 
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2656 |
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 10:02 |
That's actually a 20 mm grenade launcher. I heard these weapons have a lot of problems which is only to be expected with a new sytem. The grenade launcher is not that lethal, and the gun itself is very expensive, heavy, and bulky. Still though, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one. |
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Yiannis
Sultan
Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2329 |
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 04:53 |
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Xristar, 115,000 are the initial order. I'm sure the G3 will be kept as back up in the warehouses and G36 will be the rifle for the operational units. How many soldiers we have operative now? 30,000 Professionals and I bet, no more than 50,000 drafted, especially after the latest reductions of military service. Isn't is supposed to become 6-8 months soon?
Edited by Yiannis |
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
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Cezar
Chieftain
Joined: 09-Nov-2005 Location: Romania Online Status: Offline Posts: 1211 |
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Posted: 06-Dec-2005 at 01:52 |
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I fired something like 3000 rounds with only two different AK47. I noticed no inaccuracy developing. Inaccuracy is related to maintenance, you take care of your weapons, they will work fine. |
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Hector Victorious
Samurai
Joined: 01-Dec-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 132 |
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Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 21:40 |
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Ah Yes the G36, I have to go with this rifle. I am More of a fan of the G3 than any of the weapons up there but its only the best of a bad lot. The M-16 is much to malfunction prone. While the AK is to inaccrurate. I mean after your 5th shot it becomes an anti-aircraft weapon!
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xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005 Location: Greece Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028 |
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Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 14:37 |
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! I always had the impression that the M16 would succeed the G3 in the Greek army. Afterall the army already has many M16 in use with the special forces. I think that 115000 pieces are not so many. I don't know how exactly infantry operates, but I think it seems the G3 will remain in use with the rest 200000+ infantrymen that supposedly Greece will present in a possible war. Btw, I have the impression that the greek army is gradually copying the german in more and more aspects. |
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Yiannis
Sultan
Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2329 |
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Posted: 05-Dec-2005 at 06:49 |
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Seems that the old classic G3 is now history in the Greek army. The agreement for their replacement by G36 has just been signed. The ammunition they use is new NATO standard, 5,56 mm and the order is to be executed "immediatelly" for 115,000 rifles. Overall value is 250,000,000 Euros, so a bit less than 2,200 per piece... I wonder how much they cost in retail. Here's the picture.  Edited by Yiannis |
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
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xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005 Location: Greece Online Status: Offline Posts: 1028 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Nov-2005 at 04:07 |
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Yes. New AKs use however the 5.56mm NATO bullets! |
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