Freedom for Palestine

Originally posted by Nick1986 That's not true. The Muslim Turks and Mughals tolerated other religions while the Christians still burned people as witches or heretics. Modern Muslims may be prejudiced against outsiders, but this is largely a reaction to earlier oppression by European imperialists and America's support for dictators like Mubarak and Zionist colonialism

Originally posted by Nick1986 That's not true. The Muslim Turks and Mughals tolerated other religions while the Christians still burned people as witches or heretics. Modern Muslims may be prejudiced against outsiders, but this is largely a reaction to earlier oppression by European imperialists and America's support for dictators like Mubarak and Zionist colonialism

This is not true either. You live in your islamic dreamworld, not in reality. Tens of millions of Hindus were killed and thousands of temples destroyed by Muslim invaders:

The Muslim conquest of the Indian subcontinent led to widespread carnage because Muslims regarded the Hindus as infidels and therefore slaughtered and converted millions of Hindus. Will Durant argued in his 1935 book The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage (page 459):
“ The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with great glee and pride the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave markets and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800 AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by sword during this period.
...
Prof. K.S. Lal, suggests a calculation in his book Growth of Muslim Population in Medieval India which estimates that between the years 1000 AD and 1500 AD the population of Hindus decreased by 80 million.
Persecution of Hindus during Islamic rule of the Indian sub-continent

Se also
Conversion of non-Muslim places of worship into mosques

As for Christians and Jews, I have not time now to detail how the Arabs and Turks 'tolerated' them but you may find all the information on Wikipedia and other sources, like
Islam and antisemitism


Muslims invented the state religious discrimination, the yellow (and other color) badges for Jews and other non-Muslims:
Yellow badge


The Quran and Hadith don't teach Muslims to tolerate other religions but to exterminate the polytheists and to subjugate and humiliate the Christians and Jews. Muslim history was a history of war and conquest because the founder wanted to control everything.


As for modern Muslims, their violence is primary directed toward other Muslims, either for sectarian differences or as punishment for those who don't want to observe the islamic prescriptions. TheReligionOfPeace.com website keeps an evidence of the attacks of Muslims on Muslims and non-Muslims. You can find on the bottom of the page a huge list with the attacks in the last two months and in the years since 2001. Each day tens of Muslims and othe people killed by religious fundamentalists. On the top of the page, on the right, you find articles from online journals about other psychotic acts of Muslims acting to implement Mohammed's 'values'.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 30-Sep-2011 at 09:08

Muhammed and his Jewish firends: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

Ollios, you don't live in a country which is ruled by Islamic clerics, so you can't understand what we feel about Islam in our country, people are being executed, stoned to death, gotten their hands cut off, ... just because these Islamic laws, what do you expect that I say about this religion? Call it Islam or any other thing, this cruel and brutal ideology should be ban and those who believe in  these savage laws really need "mental hostpital".

Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 30-Sep-2011 at 16:00

In the next week an Iranian Christian named "Yusef Nadarkhani" will be executed for apostasy, this is an Islamic law which shows the meaning of "freedom" in this religion, someone can be killed because of his/her personal beliefs, Muslims need more freedom to kill millions of people around the world for this reason.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Ollios, you don't live in a country which is ruled by Islamic clerics, so you can't understand what we feel about Islam in our country, people are being executed, stoned to death, gotten their hands cut off, ... just because these Islamic laws, what do you expect that I say about this religion? Call it Islam or any other thing, this cruel and brutal ideology should be ban and those who believe in  these savage laws really need "mental hostpital".   We don't have any problem with those people who call themselves Muslims but don't follow Islamic laws, for example those Muslims who ignore the Islamic law that a punishment can be just "Execution, or Crucifixion, or the Cutting and Removing Off of hands and feet from OPPOSITE sides, ..." (Quran: Al-Ma'idah: 5 - 33)

It's a pity we don't have punishments like that in the UK for all the thieves, murderers and child molesters overfilling our prisons. On the other hand, be careful not to confuse the Islamic religion with the Islamist political ideology similar to 17th century Puritanism. All Islamists are Muslims, but not every Muslim is an Islamist

Cyrus Shahmiri, really thank you for your hearty answer. I am looking for this.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Ollios, you don't live in a country which is ruled by Islamic clerics, so you can't understand what we feel about Islam in our country

I won't discuss how difficult is living in Iran with you. What you say about it, it is true.  However I can argue sometihing (you can't understand what we feel about Islam in our country). Some Turks felt(me to) similar emotions after the AKP government
this is Izmir, it is also symbol for being anti-AKP(or fear of being Iran) and I posted before, I don't support any the idea of country religion. Countries shouldn't have religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_Protests

I am living in the country where execution is illegal since 2004 but we hadn't used it since 1984, but in some countries (I don't give name US?, ?hina and Ir?n) execution is still continuing all around world so it is not just about religion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Turkey

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Call it Islam or any other thing, this cruel and brutal ideology should be ban and those who believe in  these savage laws really need "mental hostpital

Do you thing every muslim proud with Iran and they hope that maybe one day, can their government be like Iran? none of turkic or muslim balkan countries have sharia so it makes that problem isn't Islam and also I told before, it is in every religion. You can see it. just computer, net and a little time for research.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri let's not fool ourselves, the problem is just Islam, the first group that you call Muslims are some people who don't follow Islamic laws and the second group that you call Islamists are real followers of Islam. I'm myself a Muslim, more than 80 percent of Iranians call themselves Muslims but drink wine, dance in parties, love gambling, ... but always fear of real Muslims.

Maybe Quran is single but I have to know it as a muslim, religious differences and variations in Islam are as much as deep and lots like in Christianity, so for me Molla's in Iran are fanatics, excessively religious but for them, I guess, I am kaffir, so who is real muslim? Many centuries Catholics accused Ortodoxs and Protestans for not being real christians. Now all world accept three of them as different ways of christinanity

Don't you thing living in Iran(world Extremly Politic Islamic Country) make you more aggressive agaist Islam? My way isn't accusation religions, accusation just negative applications and rules.

Menumorut We have got language barrier. Maybe it is because of me. English isn't my first language. I didn't want more references, I asked your words, your thesis, but you should know that if you continue on this way, I will do to. I can post many things about Christianity.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Could you Menumorut answer, these questions?
*Do you deny bloody sides of Christianity history?(You should know that I didn't do it for Islam)
*Do you believe that all reason of problems is JUST about Islam?
*or Do you agree that problem is just fanatic sides and in every belief they are, even christianity or atheism 
*what do you hope from me? and your point?(like I hope you notice that....., I just want to show that... , I will be glad if you accept this....... or If I were you, I....)
*what is your possible scenarioes for end of our conversation?

Note:first 3 are yes-no questions so please before reply say yes or no

Nick1986 I agree you about Muslims and Islamists



Edited by Ollios - 01-Oct-2011 at 10:36

Woow,that's a duel!Guns or swords?You behave same as people about you discuss!For both of You,10 times hear this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iQbBbMAFE&ob=av3e


Edited by medenaywe - 01-Oct-2011 at 14:57

Great, another George Bush. America is already fighting a war on two fronts and he's already threatening Iran. The Jews of the Classical era were a completely different people to modern Jews, most of whom are of Slavic descent. Palestine may have been named after the Philistines, but these were absorbed by the Jewish majority or expelled by David. It's very hypocritical of the Americans to denounce terrorism when their own nation was founded through violent revolution. The attacks in Gaza have increased not because Israel is under pressure, but because settlers continue to steal Palestinians' ancestral lands. He may be right to express caution over the Arab spring, but even if a group like the Muslim Brotherhood does gain power, their actions as the legitimate government will be considerably-less radical than their current views as they will have to deal with a constitution, popular pressures and international-diplomacy. The Arab Spring and Palestinian independence are irreversible, meaning the only option is to engage the new regimes democratically and lead by example as a positive role-model, not a bully and aggressor, or face isolation and long-term rejection by the Arab nations

Originally posted by Ollios Menumorut<span id="userPro655148" ="msgsidepro"="" title="View Drop Down"></span> We have got language barrier. Maybe it is because of me. English isn't my first language. I didn't want more references, I asked your words, your thesis, but you should know that if you continue on this way, I will do to. I can post many things about Christianity.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

The references about the historical persecution of non-Muslims by Muslims was a correction to one of Nick's messages. Why you bring Christianity here? It has no relevance, as we talk about Islam. And while not an Atheist, I'm not a Christian either. I don't believe in the gospels fairy tales about miracles and I think 99% of the OT and 90% of the NT are pure inventions.

Could you Menumorut answer, these questions?*Do you deny bloody sides of Christianity history?(You should know that I didn't do it for Islam)*Do you believe that all reason of problems is JUST about Islam?*or Do you agree that problem is just fanatic sides and in every belief they are, even christianity or atheism  *what do you hope from me? and your point?(like I hope you notice that....., I just want to show that... , I will be glad if you accept this....... or If I were you, I....) *what is your possible scenarios for end of our conversation?

1. Yes, I deny.
2. No.
3. I disagree.
4. Nothing.
5. I just change information and ideas. When I will finish what I have to say the conversation is over.

Now let me explain first three points.
1. I deny that Christianity is violent. Is a completely peaceful religion, like Buddhism. In the same time, Islam teachings are violent. Stonings, mutilations, war, revenge, is the opposite of Christianity. If some Christians behave violently and some Muslims peacefully, is not relevant for the real nature of each religion, as they appear in their 'sacred' texts.
2. Is true that Islam is not the only problem, nationalism is another one. But I tend to believe that Islam is the main problem, as the Quran teaches Muslims to kill the Jews (alternatively with verses telling Muslims to protect them, because Mohammed ......edited for derogative and inflammatory language. So Muslims think is their duty to persecute and exterminate the Jews, as Muhammad did and taught.
3. While "Christian terrorism" is something too insignificant to be mentioned here, the Islamic option for violence and oppression is general, not limited to some 'fanatics'. Statistics show that a large part of Muslims (probably the majority) support the violent, inhuman Sharia punishments of stoning the adulterers, cutting hands or killing the apostates:

About eight-in-ten Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan (82% each) endorse the stoning of people who commit adultery; 70% of Muslims in Jordan and 56% of Nigerian Muslims share this view. Muslims in Pakistan and Egypt are also the most supportive of whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery; 82% in Pakistan and 77% in Egypt favor making this type of punishment the law in their countries, as do 65% of Muslims in Nigeria and 58% in Jordan.

When asked about the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Jordan (86%), Egypt (84%) and Pakistan (76%) say they would favor making it the law; in Nigeria, 51% of Muslims favor and 46% oppose it.

When it comes to the death penalty for those who leave Islam, Muslim men in Nigeria are clearly supportive (58% favor and 39% oppose).
Pew Report

So, with such a support for those evil rules, is senseless to say that only the fanatic Muslims are the problem. Or to say that the "Christian terrorists" are a real problem.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 02-Oct-2011 at 18:16