Turkey�s choise about Iraq 2 years ago

Kurds having their own lands, own state, own flag, is not more sensible than Penjabis do the same out of India. 

I wonder why..

Free right??? Oh neighbour you don't know what you're talking about.

Maybe , but this is what i want to know .....

7 of the 10 presidents of Turkey so far are kurdish citizens.(ex, Atat�rk, S�leyman Demirel and Ahmat Necdet Sezer.)

Agreed ...So ?

more than half of the bourocrats are kurdish, many of the greatest holdings and companies are owned by kurds, kurdish groups/houses/tribes still have their own authorities in elections and supply block votes for the politician who they deal.

greatest kurdish mass lives in Istanbul and Ankara(not SE Anatolia) and rejects to go to SE if you even kill them.

So ? I believe what u say ...but so what ??If they dont want to go to Kurdistan , they will apply for Turlish citizenship , which u will have the right to give or to deny it to them..

Ancestral land? you seem to be a fantasiteur , so lets bring Attila back and tell him put those europeans in the previous ordern in european lands, and Turks should go back to central asia. don't live in the dusty pages of the past. but yeah we should get lesson from the past and it's named "history".her's the lesson: Kurds were never dominant in their ancestoral lands, iranians, arabs, armenians, byzantians, rome, macedonians, pontics and Turks, but never kurds. even if they couldn't create a state and independence, then who will give them thier independence while they love to be ruled???

Now . here i object strongly Yafes...NO MAN IS BORNED A SLAVE....ALL MEN R BORN FREE...So , what if they were never strong to have their own country ? Now it is their chance to have it ...And no one has the right to deny it to them

AMERICA

because america can't rule here with Ankara, but kurds are easily provocated for the easy use of themselves. Turks don't give a thing without an equal proposal, but kurds are ready to serve in the name of a fake state.

We all know that Turkey is good in bargaining. On the other hand , if the Kurds r offering their services to USA , in exchange for a free country of their own , and USA accepts it then u will have to accept it too..

But we will see...

We have built Anatolia lots of cities, such as Nevshehir, Aksaray, Gumushane, Ighdir, Adapazari, Tekirdagh, etc. There are also lots of ancient Anatolian cities which were once built by Hittites (ex: Ankara, Cankiri, etc.), Urartu (Van, Hakkari), Bulgar tribes (Kars, etc.) that were ruined with the Roman invasion of Anatolia, and became small and poor villages that were paying very high taxes to Byzanthine princes. They got rid of paying those heavy taxes under Seljuk and Beylik rules, and they were totally rebuilt during the republic period (1923-1930). Today, lots of them became developed and big cities of Turkey, such as Ankara, the Hittite city that became a poor ruined village under Byzanthine rule, became the capitol of Turkey with a population of 1/3 number of citizens of Greece.

Oguz...

From ur writtings it is clear that u dont know a bit about history and on the other hand u cannot decide what u were...

First of all the Hittites had nothing to do with u. They were an ancient race that built cities , while u were nomads of the steppes and the best u did was to built tent cities to last 2-3 months...having at last established urselves to the lands where Hittites had flourished some thousand years before u , does not make them ur ancestrals...Second ...villages DID not pay any taxes to any princes . This was ur system of ruling NOT the Byzantine. The Byzantines had the system of "akritas" ....owners of lands in the remote areas of the Empire , acting as soldiers too in need be.The Byzantines were NOT thast stupid to overtax the people upon which it was based their system of border defenses...So spare us the small childrens stories, we r not talking about money-thirsty ugly princes , but of a system of goverment.

When at last u have decided to establish urselves to a certain land , gradually and naturally u went from tents to brickwall homes...and as u expanded u found cities and villages ready to live in ....the only problem was the people living already there....but u solved it easily ... u just killed the majority and enslaved the rest.

We are all fed up with some non-sense posts. I couldnt figure out why you needed to place the "being nomads" clause in a topic that has nothing to do with it, but if you think it is something we should be ashamed of, have a look at those nude men sculptures on ancient Greek temples before critiseizing Turkic tents and lifestyle in your posts. I think non of the cultures of civilizations deserve your critisizings, including ours.

Who on earth said that u should be ashamed of ur past ????? Certainly NOT me...If u are , that is ur problem , not mine.

The "nomadic" past of urs was used just to emphasize one more time the difference of ur mentality with ours...and to show the difference of ur actions , compared to ours...It certainly did not mean to show which one is , or isnt better..It emphasised differences....

And we arent afraid to lose any other race of subjects, indeed, we had enough from backstabber treason. Kurds arent a race of subjects, but a nation with a commmon history with us since 1000 years, and even before it. We cannot count them the same as the other once subjects, such as Armenians, Greeks, Arabs, Assyrians etc. And we dont need anyone to provoke them against the government. If there is a problem btw the Kurdish population and their rights against the government (and yes, there are some), we should solve it in our country, not with a new "....istan" country as a petrolium colony of U.S. in Middle East.

It seems that not all of u think along the same lines.Nobody is provoking them .Ur own country send to jail an elected member of ur Parliament , the Kurdish Zanna , not some other people from another country.

And i am sorry , but i have to point out to u that if USA is of the need of another ...istan , like Kurdistan , to protect their interests in the area , and the oil of Mosul and Kirkuk , from falling into ur hands , be sure that they will create it ....

I cant agree with you. Ataturk a Kurdish citizen? I've never heard of that, but this isnt true, since I know a lot about his life and origins.

And Turkish beurocrats are oftenly appointed from the higher levels of social community, and the Kurds are a very tiny minority in beucracy.

Iskenderani,

If you have read my post, you would realize that I didnt claim anything about Hittites being Turkic or our ancestors. They were Indo-European people, so this is clear. But, if you knew a bit history, you would know that we have built lots of new cities in Anatolia, middle east and Balkans, and developed most of those ancient small villages into todays capitols.

We can go on debating who knows History and who doesnt , for ever.So , lets be more specific....And lets take the area of the Balkans wich is closer.... Which r the major cities that u have built ??? From scratch that is .....Will u make a list of them ?

And correctly u cannot claim any relationship with the Hittites , but then why u mention them at all ? We r talking about ur dids not theirs.

And dont claim the Byzanthines didnt overtax the Anatolian population. The Byzanthine princes (tekfur) were violating all the laws and collecting enormous taxes, and slaughtering the locals. This is why some Turkmen"uchbegs" could capture these western Anatolian cities easily, and could rule them. Because the local population was fed up with Byzanthine taxes and they needed a more confortable rule. So they didnt rebel against the conquerers.

Sorry in this , but let me know better my OWN History , or the history of the Greek Empire of Byzantium. The reasons why these Anatolian cities were left to fight of their own , r completely different .It were the Slavs and Bulgarians pressing the empire in the Balkans , threatening Konstantinopolis , plus the inability of most emperors...U cant be serious implying that because of the taxes , the local population agreed to its slaughter and the state of reaya....Spare us the propaganda and talk about history.

You should also know that Turks didnt became to live a settled lifestyle with the conquest of Anatolia, but much more before that, with the establish of Gokturk Kaghanate. This was the first semi nomadic state. And then with the Karakhanid State, Turks began to settle in some specific lands of western central asia.

As u say they were semi-nomadic states , completely uniportant .This is why they were disolved , leaving maybe , some stones behind them , but nothing worth telling.

Leyla Zana was sent to jail because she supported an internationally recognised terrorist group, PKK. As I said, there are some problems with the Kurdish citizens of Turkey and their national rights. So to solve this problem isnt possible with some supported terrorist leader who have complicated missions and who can use many young lives, Kurdish boys for his goal. This terrorist organization slaughters both Turkish soldiers and civilians, and Kurdish villagers who regrets to support them economically and in other ways. The problems should be solved politically with our governments, not with some provokers seperatist goals.

This is UR explanation. Whatever her "crime" was , in civilised countries , legaly elected  members of the parliaments , r having legal immunity and they cannot be arrested under any pretence. Just as the news paper man who was arrested and convicted because he dared express differnet opinions about the Cyprus problem , calling to Cypriots to give to the world a message of democracy , by voting NO , as the Greek Cypriots did .

So , u r calling these people terrorist for ur own reasons obviously. Because by defining them , as such , u make ur work in denying their rights , easier.They didnt wake up one day and said :Lets kill Turks .... They were forced to act in such a way reacting to ur actions of denying them their rights..

for your U.S. ideas: It isnt that easy to create a new country that will threat our borders and serve US in front of world media. Firstly, we have the Turkish breucratic and military power. Then, the international media, then the Shias, then Russia, then E.U. etc. The power balances arent that one sided, and even this game has rules, so there is no so called "king" in international power balances, but there are princes, cavalries and villagers.

No , it is not easy to create a new country , but at the same time it is easy to make a start.And why u claim that it will be a threat to ur country ?? Will they be so strong in their army ?? How will they threaten u ?

In reality there is no threat at all. The threat is u who r occupying Kusrdish lands , where Kurds are the majority and who , naturally will demamd to be united with their brethren. And as a second reason , u will lose all dreams of controling the oils of Kirkuk and Mosul.

A Kurdish free state , will act as a buffer state between u and the rich oil fields of North Irak , letting USA an easy role to control them.This will meke u more dependent to USA and therefor more obedient...On the other hand Russia , is interested on u becoming weaker , so she has a free hand in the ex-soviet islamic "democrasies" of central Asia.

As u see , everything points in favor of the free state of Kurdistan.

Now . here i object strongly Yafes...NO MAN IS BORNED A SLAVE....ALL MEN R BORN FREE...So , what if they were never strong to have their own country ? Now it is their chance to have it ...And no one has the right to deny it to them

They're no slaves,

Agreed ...but this was NOT ur belief some years ago.

but if you understand freedom for the right to settle a free state everywhere; so let's start with a Turkish state covering all over north of Tsesalonika(Selanik we pronounce) and recognize TRNC. ( don't you wanna give everyone the right to settle a free state, so agree this.

A good joke....but only for u ....U see it is U who speaks about settlements...i didnt say anything like that ....So the Kurds have EVERY right to establish their FREE state in Kurdistan , not in London..or Frangfurt....keep this in mind , all of Kurdistan ... not a part of it..

So keep on dreeming about Thessaloniki , and keep on having more dreams about the occupied Cyprus....ur waking up will be a sudden one..