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The Huns - Scourge of Roman Europe

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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Huns - Scourge of Roman Europe
    Posted: 18-Aug-2011 at 15:45
What is the origin of the Hunnic Empire?

Bury writes that we know that in the III and IV centuries, the Sien-Pi (Hsien-pei)* people had dominated over Tartar Asia, and that in the mid IV century the Zhu-Zhu had took over the territories from them and created a vast realm. This "Zhu-Zhu Empire" had spaned from Korea and the Pacific coast to the Urals. This Zhu-Zhu empire had apparently been expanding and pushed the Hun westward into Europe.

What on Earth is the Zhou-Zhou Empire and why I can't make heads or tails of this story?

* - this is obviously referring to Xianbei


Edited by Yugoslav - 18-Aug-2011 at 15:47
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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2011 at 18:40
well, in the Hunnic army were probably also some slavic elements. Some known words of hunnic language are present in many slavic languages.
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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2011 at 10:12
Originally posted by Mosquito

well, in the Hunnic army were probably also some slavic elements. Some known words of hunnic language are present in many slavic languages.


?
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2011 at 10:16
It's more likely the Slavs adopted elements of Hunnic languages when the Huns conquered them. English gained a lot of French loan-words after William the Bastard deposed the rightful king
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2011 at 11:55
Originally posted by Nick1986

English gained a lot of French loan-words after William the Bastard deposed the rightful king

I think the language expert Michel Thomas estimates the number as over half of the words in daily use in the English language having a French origin.


Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 10-Sep-2011 at 11:58
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  Quote Karalem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2011 at 15:38
Huns real political importance was gone in 1918. German Kaiser Army was the last stand of Huns.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 10:05
The Germans were descended from Goths. The Huns were Asian, like the Scythians, Mongols and Tatars. They apparently colonised Hungary and intermarried with the locals, creating a new culture
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  Quote Karalem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 15:43
whoever Huns and Mongols were, the Germans were the last to continue their politics. I would also add the Germany of Hitler despite the association with the iron cross. The symbol of cross does not translate here with  keeping up with western christian traditions.

I haven't seen any good evidence of who Huns or Mongols were. just a bunch of hogwash. The Mongols apparently were in the business of kidnapping tradesmen and dragging them to new places to build castles and cities for them. If so, the Kremlin-like structures, castles with massive walls and chess-board pattern streets surrounding cities were built during Mongol times. The place the Mongols took the craftsmen from would be, mostly, Venice and Vicenza and the so called Byzantium (note that consonants v/w and b were interchangeable in the middle ages), but not only from there. Now, the question is what became of those kidnapped people, what new ethicity did they manage to create, what new history did they write to project the roots of their culture, who they are today? Any takers?
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 16:08
The Russians, of course. Tsarist Russia with its Viking nobility and royal family preserved Roman culture after the fall of Byzantium. One of the tsars was even married to the emperor's daughter
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  Quote Karalem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 16:25
There was no Russia back then. Russia and earlier Kievan Rus and some other EE states were formed on the ruins of mongol khagnates. Mongols had their world  color coded. This code is visible in early eastern Europe when Slavs appeared. It still does not explain who the Mongols were.
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2011 at 19:19
Originally posted by Karalem

There was no Russia back then. Russia and earlier Kievan Rus and some other EE states were formed on the ruins of mongol khagnates. Mongols had their world  color coded. This code is visible in early eastern Europe when Slavs appeared. It still does not explain who the Mongols were.
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I'm sure that someone amongst the people they came across and fought must have described them in some way, same goes for the Huns. I mean, didn't the Mongols fight Persians, Chinese, Koreans, Arabs, Russians and Turks? Plus, Mongolians are still among us nowadays and as much as we know from their culture, it matches the one ascribed to the hordes.
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  Quote Karalem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2011 at 11:36
The idea is they were Altaic speakers, but despite such military success no one speaks Turkish in Europe.  They may have been related to the Ottomans. Another is they were Magyars and what is left is modern Hungarian. They ruled in Eastern Europe for a few hundred years. They left similar building style that extends far further to the west than their putative Golden Horde lands in Russia.
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  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2011 at 16:00
Originally posted by Karalem

The idea is they were Altaic speakers, but despite such military success no one speaks Turkish in Europe.  They may have been related to the Ottomans. Another is they were Magyars and what is left is modern Hungarian. They ruled in Eastern Europe for a few hundred years. They left similar building style that extends far further to the west than their putative Golden Horde lands in Russia.


I disagree, nomadic people usually get absorbed very easily into the culture they invade, I wouldn't be surprised if they totally lost tough with their old selves when they first came in contact with civilization. Same story as with the Amorites and the Babylonians. In the culture war, nomads always lose.
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  Quote Karalem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2011 at 17:46
Civilisation brought about by Christians was far from peaceful. The Crusades were a bloody adventure. Many people were pagans paying blood tax to whoever seized the land. Mongols controlled the whole of Eurasia, at least on the map. In reality, it was not possible in the medieval world to somehow maintain such a large state. I would look for ties with the Ottomans; however, unlike the Ottomans, the Mongols pretty much vanished from the face of history. They also left castles and burghs and cities, which is the only real thing they left. No language, no religion, no descendants, odd for the biggest empire in history. Could they have been Muslims? Orthodox eastern Christianity was in many ways and manners a crossroad between Judeo Christianity and Islam.
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