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Huns and mongols were all caucasian!!

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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Huns and mongols were all caucasian!!
    Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:11
Mongols came from today's Mongolia and all mongolians are mongoloid
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What if Mongolia was occupied by caucasians, and mongolians were raped siberians? Just like brazilian indians are mongoloid does not proved Brazil was found by the mongoloid indians.
 
Mongolians=/mongols, Mongol empire was founded by invading western caucasians, mongolians today are a remnant of siberians who were forced to assimilate.
 
Mongolian mongols were left in mongolia, while the caucasian mongols were ravaging across Eurasia, that is why there is very few caucasian traces left, they were assimilated into mongolian gene pool totally. The western admixtures within modern mongolians prove this. There are 5% R1a, R1b within mongolians, but there is no caucasian female mtdna found.
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 11-Jul-2011 at 20:57
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:18
Western colonialism does not bring cultures always, and current superior perception of western civilization is also hypocritical. If you get this straight you can see the truth easily. All western colonialism is characterised by martial conquest, massacres, raping. The economy was also found on resources robbed. In ancient times when caucasians are less cultured but it did not stop them from being colonists. It is all the same invasion, infiltration, massacres.
 
Mongol empire =/Mongolia, just like Indian reservation=/the United States or Brazil government.
 
Mongol empire was a kingdom ravaging the whole Eurasia for 400 years, Mongolia was just a small country with no population, resource, culture to enable any form of conquest. The fallacy of Mongolia being Mongol empire is obvious but people are tended to ignore it, I am sure many people have wondered? This question: Where the were the powerful mongols??? They just vanished?
 
No, they are in Russia, America, Turky, Europe, Western Asia, Middle East.  
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 11-Jul-2011 at 20:40
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:55
By my theory  the apparent discepancy between chinese and mongol culture, and between siberian and mongol culture can be explained. Why the tame, split minor siberians could have been able to conquer 80% of Eurasia? No, they were never able to do so, just they were forced to do so.
 
Mongolians except for their western admixture, they are genetically SIBERIANS, AND PROVEN.
 
What made them one mongolian and another siberian? The Mongol Empire. Just search for siberian mongoloid people like evenkis, nenets, eskimos, chukchis, saamis, lapps, tell me when they invaded any country, created any empire, or if they are able to do any form of resistance against the weakest government. Those mongoloid tribes have been in northern siberian for 10000 years, not untill mongols came they were never considered as invaders,they are the lest criminal people on the surface of Earth, oneday they suddenly became invaders and now returned to their ancient character before. Can you believe this????
 
Or some foreign force intervene, forced them to assimilate, to join their army, to serve their course, which one is more credible?
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 11-Jul-2011 at 21:04
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 20:57
All concerned.
 
Interesting and informative exchange here...
Keep it level... keep it civil.... keep it clean..... Wadjet strive real real hard to keep out anti-nationalistic and nationalistic bias or predilections past or present.
 
Re-read....http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512&FID=68&PR=3 especially para six and the attached appendix.
 
If ya can't do this I will do it for you...trust me.
 
Now all carry on....and discuss it the way all are capable of.Thumbs Up


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 11-Jul-2011 at 21:00
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2011 at 22:19
Siberians are no nomadic steppe people, they are arctic, ice faring people. They live on deer herding, arctic fishing like eskimo, it is their true culture.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 02:29
There were people from Siberia,Persia,India and China.Those were basic DNA carriers in ancient time as you have told us above.After those invasions,what have left from them?Who did take habitat to(or left DNA?) whom?Where did defeated live now?It looks as vampire invasion or aliens attack(info missing?)to me,cause during small time period everything have changed as it is today!If similar things had not happened here I would have not believed it at all.All libraries about Pre Christ period had vanished all around the world in the same time?It could be aliens attack,more than obvious.LOL
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 03:07
Medenaywe, you mostly write unintelligible posts, only sentence I can make out is where did the defeated live?
 
In Mongolia, where the mongols frist conquered.
 
In China, they conquered the whole China,
 
In western Eurasia, where the conquered and conquers live togather.
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  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 03:48
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

Medenaywe, you mostly write unintelligible posts, only sentence I can make out is where did the defeated live?
 
In Mongolia, where the mongols frist conquered.
 
In China, they conquered the whole China,
 
In western Eurasia, where the conquered and conquers live togather.

Excuse me, Wadjet Horus, do not insult people by saying they have "unintelligible posts". You must be polite and ask for points to be clarified.
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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  Quote khun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 05:37
FYI

Mongolia marks many historic anniversaries this year. For instance, in connection with the 2220th Anniversary of the Founding of Mongolia's Statehood – "Hunnu Empire" (Southern Huns or Xianu Empire) – a Peace Festival of Nations of Hunnu Origin is going to be organised in Ulaanbaatar. Representatives of 33 countries have been invited to attend this great event.

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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2011 at 06:41
Originally posted by khun

FYI

Mongolia marks many historic anniversaries this year. For instance, in connection with the 2220th Anniversary of the Founding of Mongolia's Statehood – "Hunnu Empire" (Southern Huns or Xianu Empire) – a Peace Festival of Nations of Hunnu Origin is going to be organised in Ulaanbaatar. Representatives of 33 countries have been invited to attend this great event.

 
Yes, I also celebrate Valentine, my friends celebrate Xmas.
 
I have already said, mongols gained resources and technology from China, and conquered Siberia and China before they went to the west.
 
Tell me about chariots and horses in Central Asia dating from 2000BC, tocharians in western China since 1800BC. Whatever, western china have been mixed up since 4000 years ago, and mongoloid mixtures happens in scandinavia where have only been invaded by russians and nazis.  What ever the Hunnu was, they are not far from being western caucasians.


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 12-Jul-2011 at 06:55
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  Quote AmirT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2011 at 14:59
I must say that OP is quite ignorant.

If you say that Mongols were Caucasian then YOUmust provide the prove.

Many Turkic tribes who lived in Central-Asia (Tatars for example) at first had conflicts but after they joined Genkhis Khan.

They were known for their horsemanship, did you ever tried to ride a horse in the mountains of the Caucasus at the same way as the Mongols did?
People living in the steppe is the most logical answer to this.


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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2011 at 20:42
Originally posted by AmirT

I must say that OP is quite ignorant.

If you say that Mongols were Caucasian then YOUmust provide the prove.

Many Turkic tribes who lived in Central-Asia (Tatars for example) at first had conflicts but after they joined Genkhis Khan.

They were known for their horsemanship, did you ever tried to ride a horse in the mountains of the Caucasus at the same way as the Mongols did?
People living in the steppe is the most logical answer to this.


 
The proof is western asians had been left pure western asians, and central asia has been mixed up by europids more than by mongoloids. Genetics show the mixing caused by Mongol empire is from the west toward the east, did any conquered ask to be mixed up?
 
Also all the so called mongoloid Ghengis Khan haplogroup  happens only in eastern Eurasia and China, but Mongol empire controlled 80% Eurasia, why is that ?
 
Lets check out central asian and western asians DNA: Sleepy
 
1-y-chromosome R1a:
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Haplogroup R1a is the subclade of R with the highest frequencies. Haplogroup R is found in very high frequencies in Turk tribes and ancient Turk graves, for example it is found in Xiongnu Turk graves. Some of the very interesting results of R in Turks(and also Mongols and Tungusics) are: 95,0% in Bashkirs, 92,9% in Altaians, 82,5% in Khotons, 80,0% in Tuvinians, 78,4% in Shors, 44,0% in Turkiye, and a lot more of these high frequencies.
 
 
2-y-chromosome I
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As for haplogroup I, we must know the fact that many of the Balkan nations are of Turk origin, and have roots in Central Asia/Mongolia. Haplogroup I is found 53,7% in Bosniacs, 40,0% in Tatars, 31,6% in Gagauz's, and also in the study Keyser et. al. 2003(
http://turktoresi.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=4533), 4/27 haplotypes match with haplogroup I, this is very important, as the Keyser et. al. 2003 studies is about ancient Xiongnu Turk graves in Mongolia. This is the reason for the map of I to begin from Mongolia, because if there is evidence of 2000 year old haplogroup I in Mongolia, then the origin should lie there.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
3-y-chromosome J:
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets begin with haplogroup J, let me proof you the Turk origin of haplogroup J.

Haplogroup J is found with 72,0%(1. Place Ranking) in Avar Turks in the study Yunusbaev et. al. 2006. In Azerbaijan Turks(in studies Zerjal et. al. 2002, Wells et. al. 2001, Giacomo et. al. 2004, Murci et. al. 2001, Nasidze et. al. 2004) Haplogroup J frequencies are: 57,9%(1. Place Ranking), 48,0%(1. Place Ranking), 39,1%, 34,0%(1. Place Ranking), 31,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Kumik Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 46,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Uzbek Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 34,7%(1. Place Ranking).
In Uygur Turks Haplogroup J frequencies are: 34,0%(1. Place Ranking).
In Xiongu Hun Turk Graves there is also found one Haplogroup J. And a lot more data available at
http://www.turktoresi.com.

Haplogroup G ıs found with 86,7%(1. Place Ranking) in Kazak Turks(Bíró et. al. 2009). Even this is enough data. And i have already discussed Haplogroup I.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
Now the question is:

 
Where is the mongoloid Mongol admixture???
 
The mongoloid mongols are here:
 
Distribution of The supposed Ghengis Khan and mongol haplogroup C3.
 
 
 
From " The genetic legacy of the Mongols " The study was based on the premise that mongols were mongoloid. So we have that, most mongoloid mongols turned out to be east asians or western chinese hybrids. If we took mongol as mongoloids, mongoloid mongols left their genetic footprints only in East Asia. And turks, middle easterners, western asians are as pure as they can be. Also mind, whatever the mongol haplogroup is, there are more western admixture present within western China population.
 
The mongols, they were pale skinned caucasians from central asia, descendents of the tocharians. Dont forget, europid dominated central asia since 2000BC.
 
Summing up the genetic and historical facts, it is very clearly that mongols and huns were all caucasian, they descended from neolithic europids from Central Asia, like Andronovo and Afanasievo Cultures. The turks and mongols did come from Mongolia, but before that, they came from the west during the neolithic age and conquered Siberia and Mongolia since 500BC and assimilated a part of siberian native(now the mongolians). Just like Colonists came from the west, conquered natives, and then went back to the west again.  It is not that Mongolia was their homeland, but it was where they conquered. Their homeland was the west.
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 21-Jul-2011 at 21:11
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2011 at 09:05

In regards to China, who are the indigenous people of north China and are there any still existing as distict people?

South China seems to have indigenous population such as Miao and Yi peoples.  Are these people truly the indigenous people in south China?  Also are Miao and Yi historically asiatic people, or are they historicaly Australoid people who have mixed with asiatic people and today have an asiatic appereance?
 
I am asking these questions because the indigenous people in south India are negrito and Australoid. Ainu people from Japan are also Australoid (light complected).  Maybe Australoid migration went Africa - India - Sri Lanka - Burma and then north into China and Japan.   


Edited by Cryptic - 22-Jul-2011 at 09:07
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2011 at 10:20
Originally posted by Cryptic

In regards to China, who are the indigenous people of north China and are there any still existing as distict people?

South China seems to have indigenous population such as Miao and Yi peoples.  Are these people truly the indigenous people in south China?  Also are Miao and Yi historically asiatic people, or are they historicaly Australoid people who have mixed with asiatic people and today have an asiatic appereance?
 
I am asking these questions because the indigenous people in south India are negrito and Australoid. Ainu people from Japan are also Australoid (light complected).  Maybe Australoid migration went Africa - India - Sri Lanka - Burma and then north into China and Japan.   
 
The australoid people were not indigenous to ancient China, they were confined to the Astralian continent and Melanesian islands, there is no evidence of them northwar migration during the last 10000 years, nor there is any evidence to indicate they were in China before modern mongoloid people.
 
Prehistorical China is not as haplogroup-ward unified as today. Haplogroup D, C, Q ,N were attested in considerable perentage( 30-50%) in neolithic sites dating from 90000BC to 3000BC. They are found in central northern and southern China along with haplogroup O1-2-3. It was untill 1300BC, typical haplogroup O population started to become a majority as we see today. I do not consider ainus and jomons as non-mongoloid or australoid, theire major haplogroups are D and C, which cluster closely to O and N. Only haplogroup Q belongs rather to a northern type of mongoloid population and haplogroup O are found spread all over China during the last 10000 years. The mongoloid haplogroups found in melanesian and australoid population are rather a result of southward migration from ancient China, which was home to many different mongoloid haplogroups : D,C,N,O,Q.
 
My government is still censoring many recent genetic testing results on ethnic chinese populations, since they fear some ethnic independent movements would use the results to challenge majority chinese culture. Many ethnic chinese do not belong to majority O haplogroup, if given the information about diversified ethnic ancient culture, it may cause ethnic dispute over chinese history, it is what our government fears. It is why there is almost no genetic information on chinese
ethnography. What I tell here is from chinese forums where some rich posters had access to the censored genetic information. They also charge high fee for downloading genetic articles, not less than 200USD per article. I am just poor poster for now. Confused
 
Example of southern chinese ethnics, which has majority haplogroup N, D similiar to those of saamis in Finland and ainus in Japan. I believe, they were as indegenous as other ethnic chinese people:
 
Yi ethnic chinese, Sichuan, southwestern China.
Here is a man of Haplogroup N.
 
Man of Haplogroup D from Tibet China:
 
 
I can not find examples of Q and C, since they are rare in modern China, but you can refer to
amerindian and siberian people/eskimos, chukchis which still have up to 30% Q an C.
 
 
 
 


Edited by Wadjet Horus - 22-Jul-2011 at 10:45
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2011 at 10:56
As for the genetic relationship between east asian mongoloid and southeast asian negritoes and australoids:
 
Google a study:
 
Melanesian and Asian Origins of Polynesians
 
A slow boat migration from southern China since 6000BC is supported by genetic evidences and show how ancient chinese migration influenced native negrito(melanesian) and australoid genetic make up.
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 11:04
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

The australoid people were not indigenous to ancient China, they were confined to the Astralian continent and Melanesian islands, there is no evidence of them northwar migration during the last 10000 years, nor there is any evidence to indicate they were in China before modern mongoloid people.
      I think there is evidence that Australoids were in China, but got absorbed by asiatic peoples.
 Look at the photo of the Tibetan man.  He has a full beard (rare for asians)and his facial features do not seem to be completely asiatic.  Perhaps he is partially Caucasoid from ancient Caucasoid populations in the area, but he also looks like could be partially Australoid.
 
Also, Zhongli Quan, one of the Taoist immortal sages is shown with a full beard and sometimes also with a heavy brow line.   Both of these features are more Australoid than asiatic.  My guess is that Zhong Li Quan was from a declining Australoid population in China.  
 
I think there is evidence of a north ward migration of Australoid peoples in very ancient times.....
 
Many people consider the Ainu to australoids.    Look at these photos and you can see that the Ainu resemble Australian Aborigones.  The Ainu are just lighter complected. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=australian+aborige&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=australian+aborigines
Ainu photos
 
Also, Australoid type people were once more common in Japan.  The Emishi (possible australoid group) were once numerous on Honshu but were gradually wiped out / absorbed by the Japanese in the 1200s. http://emishi-ezo.net/
 
Furthermore, there is some evidence that Australoids were present in North America, but got absorbed by Asiatic groups.  In historical times, spanish priests described some California Indian groups as having Australoid features.
 
 
 
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

My government is still censoring many recent genetic testing results on ethnic chinese populations, since they fear some ethnic independent movements would use the results to challenge majority chinese culture.
I am not surprised.  Though I am not familiar with technical genetic terms, I think some of the genetic studies can be interperted a number of different ways.  I have seen several discussions on this forum get very heated over what genetic study "X"  really says about how closely or how distantly people "Y" and "Z" are related to each other. 
 


Edited by Cryptic - 23-Jul-2011 at 11:37
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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 22:19
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

The australoid people were not indigenous to ancient China, they were confined to the Astralian continent and Melanesian islands, there is no evidence of them northwar migration during the last 10000 years, nor there is any evidence to indicate they were in China before modern mongoloid people.
      I think there is evidence that Australoids were in China, but got absorbed by asiatic peoples.
 Look at the photo of the Tibetan man.  He has a full beard (rare for asians)and his facial features do not seem to be completely asiatic.  Perhaps he is partially Caucasoid from ancient Caucasoid populations in the area, but he also looks like could be partially Australoid.
 
Also, Zhongli Quan, one of the Taoist immortal sages is shown with a full beard and sometimes also with a heavy brow line.   Both of these features are more Australoid than asiatic.  My guess is that Zhong Li Quan was from a declining Australoid population in China.  
 
I think there is evidence of a north ward migration of Australoid peoples in very ancient times.....
 
Many people consider the Ainu to australoids.    Look at these photos and you can see that the Ainu resemble Australian Aborigones.  The Ainu are just lighter complected. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0&oq=australian+aborige&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GWYE_enUS330US330&q=australian+aborigines
Ainu photos
 
Also, Australoid type people were once more common in Japan.  The Emishi (possible australoid group) were once numerous on Honshu but were gradually wiped out / absorbed by the Japanese in the 1200s. http://emishi-ezo.net/
 
Furthermore, there is some evidence that Australoids were present in North America, but got absorbed by Asiatic groups.  In historical times, spanish priests described some California Indian groups as having Australoid features.
 
 
 
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

My government is still censoring many recent genetic testing results on ethnic chinese populations, since they fear some ethnic independent movements would use the results to challenge majority chinese culture.
I am not surprised.  Though I am not familiar with technical genetic terms, I think some of the genetic studies can be interperted a number of different ways.  I have seen several discussions on this forum get very heated over what genetic study "X"  really says about how closely or how distantly people "Y" and "Z" are related to each other. 
 

 

Tibetan man in the picture is not australoid, he is close to ainu and both he and ainu people are not australoid people, they belong to a proto-mongoloid population, for they are removed further away from european people in genetics than majority east asian people.

Yes, a lot of people of ainu racial type had once populated a considerable part of East asia in very early age of Neolithics.

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  Quote Wadjet Horus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2011 at 22:44

Australoid and negritoes heavily influenced modern Indonesian and Malaysian genetics, but they are closer to east asians in spite of their negrito looks. Graham Hancocks wife Santha Faiia is a classic example of negrito from Malaysia:

 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2011 at 09:23
Santha Faiia is Tamil, not malay.
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  Quote Werner7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2011 at 15:43
Originally posted by Wadjet Horus

There is NO reliable contemprary source from either East or West ever say huns were mongoloid, but an official persian historian working for Mongol Empire under Kublai Khan says Ghengis Khan was a caucasian. The misconception about huns and mongols were mongoloid was only spreaded during the colonial ages, when europeans were tended to view chinese, japanese and other mongoloid natives in America and Australia as savages, arrogantly linking them with their much scorned historical huns and mongols, but in fact, the misconception was just like the Nasal Index in indian caste system proposed by british anthropologists, which is totally WRONG and found on deliberate distortion of history.

I challenge everyone of you to find any quote from any source to prove Huns and mongols were mongoloid, if you failed, you must admit europeans are more hunnic and mongolic than east asians. LOL
I'm guessing that you're a Turk. 
 
Rashid Al Din's quotes shouldn't be taken seriously for obvious reasons , take for instance , his quote about Genghis being surprised that Kublai didn't inherit his red hair.
 
1) Red haired people don't EXPECT their offspring to inherit red hair , nobody really expects red hair to be inherited , especially Genghis , who had fathered many children in his lifetime and would have realized long before that red hair wasn't heritable should he actually have had red hair. 
 
In other words , the concept of a red haired man expecting his son to inherit red hair doesn't make sense and is somewhat contradictory. 
 
2)  References to the " Glittering " ancestors of Genghis by a writer influenced by Jewish forms of writing (he was ethnically Jewish) and writing in an epic format don't count as reliable sources , especially since his entire book itself had pictures of squinty asiatics and only asiatics to describe Genghis Khan. 
 
The Mongol movement was essentially an anti-nordic movement.
 
1)  Cease the Nordic expansion into Russia.  Without the Mongols , Russia would have been Nordic.
 
2)  Enslave Russia and use it for the Mongol war machine.
 
3)  Push Asiatic genes to the West.  Even Germans have Asian genes as of today , google " Pennysylvania-German-Deutch project ". 
 
Each of these steps shows an intent to move WESTWARD , also note that the Chinese , Koreans , and Mongolians DON'T HAVE CAUCASIAN DNA while the Europeans east of Germany have been tainted with Asian DNA. 
 
In other words , you're saying that these Caucasians expanded east and mixed with the Asians , thus the following would have to be true. 
 
- these Caucasians were originally West of Germany , perhaps Spanish , since Germans are tainted with Asian DNA , they could not have been these original caucasians since they have been invaded one way or another. 
 
- And you would have trouble explaining why the majority of Asians don't have a single trace of Caucasian DNA. 
 
But the MOST BLATANT ERROR in your post is this - Caucasians don't choose to mix with Asians.  e.g. the Japanese are still Asian. 
 
AND you're saying that eastern and central Europe was originally occupied by the Asiatics.  Which is absolutely preposterous. 


Edited by Werner7 - 17-Oct-2011 at 15:53
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