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Winston Churchill: Bulldog or bigot?

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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Winston Churchill: Bulldog or bigot?
    Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 05:29

The British schools have long taught us that Churchill was a hero who singlehandedly beat the Nazis. They ignore his betrayal of Poland and his incompetent handling of Gallipoli in 1915. There are many quotes proving Churchill was a racist and supporter of eugenics: before the war he suggested sterilising "morally degenerate" Britons to "prevent the decline of the British race." Interestingly, fascist groups like the BNP use his likeness on their posters: ironic considering their claims not to be a racist organisation
The costs of war
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 09:13
You must take into consideration the era.  His views weren't unique for the time.  He was an imperfect man, so what we all are.  However, without him the outcome of WWII would have been drastically different.
Long before he was PM he had Hitler pegged for what he really was.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 11:01
Concur as viewed from the context of his time he could be considered a snob and a probable bigot given his class and upbringing measured against that of the majority.
 
But in the end..... he was much more.
 
He was indeed a Gawdamn Lion.
 
And it's quite natural for me to love him from afar after studying his exploits and his peccadilloes... his moments of greatness intertwined with some that can only be considered mistakes. His pride and arrogance in concert with his humility and love for his nation and her peoples.
 
 After all he was a Cavalryman....and for that ..Wink
 
many sins are forgiven.
 
Smile
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 11:04
My grandparents never forgave him for selling Poland to the Russians. During the elections they only voted for the Tories because they didn't trust Labour
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 11:20
Politicians between WW1 and WW2 have a lot in common:non suitable for positions and responsibilities that
have carried!Hope will change something in world politics of 21th century.WW2 have been my favorite one,
therefore WC could be rated on scale of 10,weakly four,by myself.


Edited by medenaywe - 04-Jul-2011 at 11:36
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 11:28
Ah yes well I still have family up on the Wind River and Crow Creek reservations who can't believe  I have Cav Sabers tatooed on my right shoulder Nick.Big smile
 
My close friends on the Anadarko and Jicarrilla just to name a few.... think I am gawdamn traitor partly in jest and partly serious because of that.
 
 
My hispanic cousins in Tejas and New Mexico don't understand my attitude about illegal immigration
 
 
Some things...like ya grandfolks..and my cousins and friends just have to be. We differ greatly amongst ourselves sometimes over the issuses.... family's do..... here and everywhere....don't mean we don't love each other.
 
Just means we human.
 
Just like old Winston.Big smile


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 04-Jul-2011 at 11:29
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2011 at 12:26
All the best for dead one,of course.But,could it be different if...better than it was.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2011 at 05:50
Originally posted by medenaywe

All the best for dead one,of course.But,could it be different if...better than it was.

I don't understand. What do you mean?
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2011 at 06:01
It means that if behind queen Victoria stood best time in history of Britain,we still have rights to criticize all
negative features of ruler that had presented it!Churchill was character in victorious story of WW2.This victorious did not exclude that we have not rights to criticize him also!"Nobody is perfect" is not allowed term in historic analysis.


Edited by medenaywe - 05-Jul-2011 at 11:28
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2011 at 11:31
Churchill was a product of his time and era.
 
By today's PC he would be considered a rascist but I suspect he would stongly deny this.
 
BTW,although he started off the Gallipoli campaign in that he supported the project and as First Lord committed the navy to it, he id NOT run the campaign.
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  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2011 at 11:33
Oh and as to Poland, he had little or no choice other than to declare war on Russia as WWII finished. Utterly impossible as all sensible Poles well knew. In that I should say my father was a liaison officer with the Polish free Navy and after the war gave much support to those who stayed in the UK
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  Quote PADDYBOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2011 at 12:57
Well, Winnie certainly had a flawed character,that's for sure, but I'm not sure a goody two shoes would have been the right man, in the right place at the right time. Which is how I view Winnies contribution to the war effort. 
Bigot or Bulldog.....Both. 
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  Quote PADDYBOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2011 at 08:50
Originally posted by Nick1986



I don't understand. What do you mean?

Where ya got to, Nick ?
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jul-2011 at 15:56
Ole Nick updating his system he be back.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote PADDYBOY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2011 at 06:36
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

Ole Nick updating his system he be back.

Thanks for the feedback...Much appreciated..
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2011 at 12:16
That's right. They should be replacing my router next week
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2011 at 17:07
Just what is explicitly wrong with being "intolerant?" If more people had been intolerant towards Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc., then the world would have been (more than likely) a better place.

Just what makes one better if one claims to be "tolerant"?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bigot

Just call me a "part time bigot!" "By God!" smile!

Regards,

Edited by opuslola - 18-Jul-2011 at 17:13
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2011 at 10:25
You left out "Dubya" from your list.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2011 at 14:46
While I don't give a pissants pitoui, about any of the Bush family, I would suggest that the alternative to them would have made the world a worse place.

And our current president is merely an example of the "alternative!"

Are you happy with the "change?" LMAO

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  Quote Bulldog69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2011 at 07:14
He was the Greatest man Great Britain ever produced. It is hardly his fault that the head-bangers of the BNP have decided to use his likeness in their poster. 
 
If it wasn't for Churchill (and a few other men like him) we wouldn't be able to chat openly like this.
The idea that he sold out Poland is a farce - don't you think Stalin should carry a little bit more of the blame for that than Churchill?

And what, exactly, were the British meant to do?
 
Bankrupt and weary after 6 years of war, does any one think taking on the Red Army and liberating Poland in 1945 would have been a sensible course of action? And you mock him over Gallipoli...
 
Incidentally, after his resignation from the Admiralty over Gallipoli, Churchill served in the trenches with the Royal Scots. I'd like to see some of our modern 'leaders' show even 10% of the balls Churchill had.


Edited by Bulldog69 - 30-Aug-2011 at 07:16
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