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Athena
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Topic: increase military spending Posted: 23-Apr-2011 at 09:21 |
http://www.thirdworl...pend_table.html
This link gives arguments for increasing military spending, and
arguments against increasing military spending. What are your
arguments?
Also, I read Obama wants to cut military spending and then that the
recent increase is his increase in military spending. Does anyone know
how this flip would happen? How does Obama come to agree on domestic
budgets he opposed and agree to increasing military spending?
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medenaywe
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Posted: 23-Apr-2011 at 09:39 |
Your's country war industry(among many others!) is dominant factor inside your economic system!If you are president what will be your steps?Without basic changes inside world economic systems,gossips are just as mosquito bytes!?!
Edited by medenaywe - 23-Apr-2011 at 09:39
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 23-Apr-2011 at 10:00 |
It's all going to hell from here, there is nothing Obama or anyone can do about paying the debt, might as well throw away more money into the fire.
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Timidi mater non flet
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Athena
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Posted: 23-Apr-2011 at 12:05 |
What if the US brought all its troops home, and focused on defending the home land? Any positioning of troops outside the US would have to paid for by the industry wanting that. If we had no choice but to enter a war to defend our homes and families, we agree to pay for the war by selling war bonds, as we funded past wars.
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 23-Apr-2011 at 20:50 |
Defend your homeland, from whom? As I recall, there was no reason the US needed to engage in any kind of war... You might as well abolish the military establishment and the US would still be as safe as it always was. But I agree, positioning troops outside the US is costing a lot of money which comes out of taxpayer's pockets. The thing though which I don't undertsand is this idea of war bonds. It sounds quite strange that you can just make fake money in time of need and have absolutely nothing to back it up.
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Timidi mater non flet
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Nick1986
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Posted: 24-Apr-2011 at 08:59 |
Let the UN be the world's policeman. America should use her troops to protect her own borders, not invade other countries
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Baal Melqart
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Posted: 24-Apr-2011 at 11:21 |
But then where would the oil come from?
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Timidi mater non flet
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Athena
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Posted: 24-Apr-2011 at 12:39 |
Thank you all. But we need CV here for a different point of view.
I so wish I knew the history behind the US permanently stationing troops around the world. Obviously following WWII all the involved countries were very vulnerable and needed protecting, as Iraq needing protecting after the established power was destroyed, but the idiots responsible for this destruction, were completely unprepared to do the necessary protecting! But to make the US troops stationed around the world a permanent arrangement for which US tax payers must pay, is a terrible thing, isn't it? Why have not these troops been removed long ago?
As for the threat to the US, the threat is the military technology of the second world war. Any country can develop this technology and use it against the US. From what I know of economics, other countries could perceive the US as an economic enemy that threatens their very survival. I am not sure how this will play out. I do think we have been on the path of economic disaster and war, ever since we based on economy on oil. This was known as early as the 1920's, because I read it in 1920's newspaper. But it is more than this. Oil is sold in dollars, and oil countries were (past tense) putting their money in US banks, and this gave the US incredible control of world economies. To have dollars to buy oil, many nations did whatever they could to have dollars, and they pegged their currency to US dollars. I really think 9/11 was a warning, not an attack on US citizens. 9/11 is what we dial when there is an emergency. I think if we had a better understanding of oil and currency values and how the US began loosing control, we have a better understanding of the message, and respond to it completely differently than we have. But we are not geared to think in these terms, and we need CV to give us the thinking we are working with.
We need to understand economic conflicts to understand the potential for future wars, and thanks to the owners of these forums, who give us place to discuss such things. The whole world is increasing military budgets right now. The world is preparing for war. Surely it can be argued, the only defense is a strong offense.
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tjadams
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Posted: 24-Apr-2011 at 16:41 |
Originally posted by Nick1986
Let the UN be the world's policeman. America should use her troops to protect her own borders, not invade other countries |
I agree, sounds good to me. Position our troops in camps every few miles apart. Let the soldiers drive their jeeps, tanks, helicopters and go on patrols along our borders and at airports. I agree. Let the UN spear head the attacks and we can provide technical support for a few months or a few years, then pull out like most other UN countries do.
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 24-Apr-2011 at 17:22 |
The rationale for continued deployment has not changed since WW2 nor will in in the near foreseeable future.
Primarily it remains based on treaty agreement and Status of Forces Agreements in play since 1948...it also was a reaction to the emergence of the former USSR as a hostile power to the extension and redemocratization of the western portions of Europe that had been devastated by the war. Ala the reason in part inherent to the Marshall plan and the formation of NATO as first line response towards the reds.
As of todate it remains policy-commitment and financial expedeniture becaues of the exstant C2/3 and logistics support infrastructure necessary for deploymentand support of NATO and or US forces within the region....or elsewhere.
It's most recent example of expansion was the creation of the US Army Africa Command.
As long as international defense and security policy as determined by the Command authority feels the need for the same vice national security interests and treaty obligations....it will remain.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 24-Apr-2011 at 18:10 |
For those with an objective frame of mind on the machinations involved...start here.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Athena
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Posted: 25-Apr-2011 at 10:42 |
Centrix Vigilis , thank you very much for that information. I need to use my newer computer because there is a lot this one won't download and your link doesn't come for me. But can you give us more information? Like can we access those peace treaties and information about them? Imagine a high school class that explains all this stuff. Shouldn't we know where our troops are, and what our treaties are? Then take the class into geography lessons about each country, its terrain, population, resources. Seriously aren't we pretty ignorant for self governing people? How can we make good decisions based on what we know? May be this excuses hiding our military spending, because unless the people live in fear, they do not want to support the Military Industrial Complex, and as the memory of WWII fades will there remain enough fear to continue this spending?
I am removing my doubts about who benefited from 9/11, to focus on the facts of military spending and our treat obligations.
Edited by Athena - 25-Apr-2011 at 15:55
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medenaywe
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Posted: 25-Apr-2011 at 11:20 |
Inside new US army helmet,display with GPS and windows platform would be included for dummies. Instant data online would be obtained to those that will carry it!We don't need no education....Truth will be daily news,all depends who do your enemies are!Nice song,students always play it,on my classes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwTpZpwjtIE
Edited by medenaywe - 25-Apr-2011 at 11:56
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Athena
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Posted: 25-Apr-2011 at 15:49 |
http://www.registerguard.com/web/polls/26154598-56/military-spending-billion-defense-obama.html.csp
I think we need to understand the Military Industrial Complex is about supporting the industry that develops and markets weapons to governments. It became on uncontrolled gravy train because of 9/11. Our local paper suggest we can decrease military spending, since that
spending nearly doubled following 9/11, not counting the cost of the
invading Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/tif/index.htm
Here is information about US treaties. I can't access it until I start up my newer computer, but may be someone else can check it out and report on the site?
Edited by Athena - 25-Apr-2011 at 16:02
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Nick1986
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Posted: 25-Apr-2011 at 16:06 |
What exactly will they do with their personalised helmet-mounted Windows platform? Frape Osama's facebook page?
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 25-Apr-2011 at 16:11 |
Information on exstant treaties enjoined by the US can be found by visiting the US State Dept Web site.
Use the pull down windows to seek information on any sited header for example 'Arms control and Security'. Which is led by USec Ellen Tauscher.
There are sections there which deal with a variety of issues and responsibilities. There is also a section available dicussing geography of nation states and US interaction.
For information on troop deployments and much more to include expediture and RDA for example.. see the following http://www.defense.gov/news/.
You will have to use the search function and subwindows and with some practice and patience you can find much information. Sometimes this requires you to go to a particular drop window for a particular service or agency. It appears daunting but isn't really.
For a particular current Order of battle (troops deployed in a region-conflict) in a specific place.... you will be better served by visting one of the many sites whose speciality deals in the collation and dis-semination of the same.
For example if you wish to know the ORBAT currently in Astan...
This material is available for study and research but do not assume you will become an expert in the field by occassionaly looking at a few web sites overnight.
You can however begin an understanding of policy and security issues and every other facet of defense if your willing to spend hundreds if not thousands of hours researching. And cross referencing varying sites-sources and reading the volumes of information and then cross referencing again that ...and.. the historical policy and resources that track the initial developement of the aforementioned policy and security issues.
You study defense issues by learning about defense issues there is no other way.
You do not need a college education or even a natural interest....or even any previous experience...but you do need patience and objectivity in the analysis of what it is you can find and study.
There are hundreds of sites and sources....go to the modern warfare forum here at Ae and you will see if you look..... hundreds of sites in varying posts.
I've been doing this since I was 18...and that was a long time ago. I made a career out of doing it. I am still doing it even tho I have retired from that career and moved on to another. Which is to say again...one must be patient and objective... and willing to spend long hours; certainly if your a layman and have had no formal training.
And while as I noted this is not a requirement any such training or education in the arena is valuable. Be it formalized or self study.
In a chronological sense it would serve well to begin at the beginning. And in that you would take yourself back to an anlaysis of the root causes of the Revolutionary war and the subsequent developement of the US as a nation...it's constitution and laws...social history...history of it's military developement and the study of it's foreign policy as it occured then... unto the present day.
Good luck and good hunting.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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medenaywe
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Posted: 25-Apr-2011 at 16:29 |
This industry produced directly or indirectly more than your Coca Cola+Microsoft together!Imagine you are going to return soldiers home during recession!?!You are risking to translate war on your own soil!?! Britain had founded colonization during economic crises useful.Earth today is overpopulated.War is solution:oil or soil,doesn't matter!Consumer society today needs changes!?!I hate myself saying this cause have lived once inside populist society.Where are "In the name of..." there are no freedom,trust me I knew that!Man needs:home,food, education,social and health care and free society to live and raise our children.This will be basic point for anyone that start to improve society anywhere in the universe.Are we aware of this?I believe we are still far away from start point even.
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 25-Apr-2011 at 21:39 |
FY2011 Contract authorizations as an example.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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Athena
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Posted: 26-Apr-2011 at 10:07 |
CV is as excellent site. Thank you
Information on exstant treaties enjoined by the US can be found by visiting the US State Dept Web site.
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However, it has so much information it is overwhelming. I tried the search engine to find a list of military bases, and the only list of military bases I can find is bases located in the US. It is the bases around the world that I want to know about. The second site is the same one I gave and can not use. It appears to be futile following your leads until I change my computer. This one won't do the down load that must be done to access the sites. I have to laugh about someone in a different forum insisting democracy means everyone is equal. How many people are going to spend the required time doing the research that is necessary to be an informed voter? Everywhere around the world, people leave the real work of government up to the authorities of all the different matters that are a part of government. Those we elect to represent us are just humans, like the rest of us, and really how much do they know?
Edited by Athena - 26-Apr-2011 at 10:43
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Centrix Vigilis
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Posted: 26-Apr-2011 at 17:05 |
''However, it has so much information it is overwhelming''
Patience and perserverence...is the key.
''It is the bases around the world that I want to know about.''
Use the DOD website for installations world wide.
Or try this one......I don't normally use wiki for this stuff but it's fairly current.
''I have to laugh about someone in a different forum insisting democracy means everyone is equal. How many people are going to spend the required time doing the research that is necessary to be an informed voter''
The ignorant, ill-informed, inept, lesser educated or the lazy....like the poor; will always be with you....you are an example of none of those....be proud of that.
I can go to my grave now saying that in a small way I helped.
yup...I know...I can be an ass as well.
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
S. T. Friedman
Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'
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