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Western Dragon vs. Eastern Dragon
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Jackbarton View Drop Down
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Posts: 2 		  Quote Jackbarton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Western Dragon vs. Eastern Dragon
    Posted: 21-Apr-2011 at 04:51

In Western culture the dragon is usually associated with evil but in the East that's not the case; the Chinese dragon is a symbol of prosperity, wisdom and power. Why are there such differences in perception? 


In the West, dragons were symbolic of evil and in their legends they were portrayed as cruel creatures that often killed fair maidens and young children. The dragons of the West essentially existed to be the villain for the knight in shining armor; every knight needs a dragon to slay in order to be a hero.

Dragons also symbolized the devil to a certain extent with their lizard-like appearances and their striking, leathery looking wings. A rare exception to this demonic association was the Order of the Dragon which actually served to defend the Cross against enemies and promote the Christian church. This mysterious knighthood was also an inspiration for Bram Stroker's Dracula.

In the East, dragons are thought of as gentle and kind but extremely wise. They lack wings but still have the ability to fly and they are benevolent rather than malevolent towards humanity. 

Their bodies are long and snake-like and they are brightly colored with long whiskers and vibrant manes. The Chinese dragon is also one of the Chinese Zodiac signs and of all the Chinese Zodiac signs the dragon is the most auspicious.

Both the dragons of Chinese astrology and Western dragons are cunning and resourceful as well as powerful and as Chinese astrology gained popularity in the West, the mindset about dragons shifted to a more positive view.

 

Martial arts master Bruce Lee also launched a major turning point in the Western mindset regarding dragons with his movie Enter the Dragon. Instead of viewing the dragon as a villain, the dragon was an impressive hero capable of great bravery and resourcefulness.

 
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Posts: 337 		  Quote unclefred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2011 at 14:00

The Chinese Dragon is the most interesting to me. It resembles the Mexican Feathered Serpent of Maya and Toltec origen. 

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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2011 at 21:09
Perhaps the different portrayals of dragons were the result of the Eastern and Western civilisations discovering dinosaur bones. The evil Western dragon bears a fanciful resemblance to carnivores like Megalosaurus or T. Rex and the larger pterosaurs, while the benevolent snakelike Eastern dragon could be harmless herbivore like a sauropod or iguanadon

Edited by Nick1986 - 26-Apr-2011 at 21:09
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Danny.T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 02:33
The Chinese dragons are not all that gentle but somehow own the awe inspiring qualities as they are also symbols of authoritarian Chinese emperors.
Some Chinese scholars think that Chinese dragons originated from lightning strikes symbolically with the roaring sound of "loong" which is the same sound of the Chinese character of "dragon".
Dragon became totem of Chinese culture (agrarian culture) as the dragons (thunders and lightnings) showed up in spring time , the people started to grow crops.
The various features of a Chinese dragon like deer horns, eagle claws, pigs nose, fish tail etc. were said to be from totems of various tribes before converging to form a dragon - a non-existent creature , a totem for all Chinese tribes.
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Danny.T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 02:45
The Mexican Feathered serpent of  Maya and Toltec orgin might have been came from Asia as dragon symbol of China can be traced back in history for about 5500 to 6000 years ago approximately.
"A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing."
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Posts: 337 		  Quote unclefred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 12:14
Originally posted by Nick1986

Perhaps the different portrayals of dragons were the result of the Eastern and Western civilisations discovering dinosaur bones. The evil Western dragon bears a fanciful resemblance to carnivores like Megalosaurus or T. Rex and the larger pterosaurs, while the benevolent snakelike Eastern dragon could be harmless herbivore like a sauropod or iguanadon
The Moche left a rich deposit of pottery depicting dragons or dinos, I suppose they were fossil induced?
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Posts: 337 		  Quote unclefred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 12:15
Originally posted by Nick1986

Perhaps the different portrayals of dragons were the result of the Eastern and Western civilisations discovering dinosaur bones. The evil Western dragon bears a fanciful resemblance to carnivores like Megalosaurus or T. Rex and the larger pterosaurs, while the benevolent snakelike Eastern dragon could be harmless herbivore like a sauropod or iguanadon
Fossils may have influenced the Moche Drgon ceramics, of which we have many:
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2011 at 13:10
Biggest ancient civilization of Egypt had had Snake God.It's equivalent was worshiped all around Med sea. Their enemies were very ferocious,snake and goat/bull were created symbols of devil's mind in religions
after that.Now we know this was act of revenge.Here you have more for Renenutet:
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/renenutet.html
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Posts: 337 		  Quote unclefred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 11:31
The Minoans also practiced a form pf Snake worship or cultish activity, not much is known at this point.
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 11:37
Hey,  I think I dated her once!                                                                         Big smile
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 11:38
I believe Great Mother got blades in her hands!Still haven't found good statue that  has been represented her.

Edited by medenaywe - 28-Apr-2011 at 15:06
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Nick1986 View Drop Down
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Posts: 7940 		  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 13:31
Originally posted by unclefred


Originally posted by Nick1986

Perhaps the different portrayals of dragons were the result of the Eastern and Western civilisations discovering dinosaur bones. The evil Western dragon bears a fanciful resemblance to carnivores like Megalosaurus or T. Rex and the larger pterosaurs, while the benevolent snakelike Eastern dragon could be harmless herbivore like a sauropod or iguanadon

Fossils may have influenced the Moche Drgon ceramics, of which we have many:

Highly likely. The Moche may have found the bones of a plesiosaur which was carnivorous and lived in the water
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red clay View Drop Down
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 14:47
The Greeks are actually thought of as the first paleontologists.Wink
 
 
 
 
                                
 
 
 


Edited by red clay - 28-Apr-2011 at 14:50
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 15:16
Red,has it been seen statue of goddess with blade(s) in her hands and fire,sun,water,moon.sun etc. symbols in her hair,by you till now?Jar above has only one hole?If there was no another than water could not be poured out and in! 
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Posts: 17084 		  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 15:26
My ancestors,Minoans Wink,cause I am Minov,were also with script still has not been deciphered till now. 
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red clay View Drop Down
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Apr-2011 at 15:58
Originally posted by medenaywe

My ancestors,Minoans Wink,cause I am Minov,were also with script still has not been deciphered till now. 
 
 
I'm not inferring anything, or implying anything at all when I say, look up the very early pottery of the Southwest Indian Cultures of the US.  Also some MesoAmerican pottery.  Then, on a casual basis, compare those with that of the Minoan and Mycenaean cultures.  Just an idea.Wink  But keeping in mind that my Degrees are in Ceramics.Big smile
 
 


Edited by red clay - 28-Apr-2011 at 16:01
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Dec-2011 at 12:31
Guess what? I love the dragon very much. Smile
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 03:57
In the Persian mythology, dragons are almost the same as the western dragons, almost all Persian heroes have killed a dragon to be known as a hero, the most famous dragon was killed by the great Persian hero Esfandiar, he killed the dragon and then bathed in the dragon's blood, which touched all of his body except his eyes which were closed, so he became invulnerable except for his eyes.
 
It is interesting to read it: http://www.amordaden.blogfa.com/post-735.aspx
 
A spring from which dragon’s blood flows
There is a spring in Ilam which is unlike all other springs that you have seen or heard of.  It is not a spring of water.  Instead, tar flows from this spring.
The local people say that from this spring dragon’s blood is flowing, the dragon which was killed in the war with the legendary hero of Iran: Esfandiar Roointan. (Roointan means invulnerable)
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Posts: 6084 		  Quote TheAlaniDragonRising Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 11:52
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

In the Persian mythology, dragons are almost the same as the western dragons, almost all Persian heroes have killed a dragon to be known as a hero, the most famous dragon was killed by the great Persian hero Esfandiar, he killed the dragon and then bathed in the dragon's blood, which touched all of his body except his eyes which were closed, so he became invulnerable except for his eyes.
That's an interesting story involving being bathed in something to be invulnerable, but missing something which leaves them vulnerable. A little bit like Achilles then. I wonder how many more stories there are which involve this kind of ritual of being immersed for invulnerability? 
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Dec-2011 at 13:27
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

In the Persian mythology, dragons are almost the same as the western dragons, almost all Persian heroes have killed a dragon to be known as a hero, the most famous dragon was killed by the great Persian hero Esfandiar, he killed the dragon and then bathed in the dragon's blood, which touched all of his body except his eyes which were closed, so he became invulnerable except for his eyes.
That's an interesting story involving being bathed in something to be invulnerable, but missing something which leaves them vulnerable. A little bit like Achilles then. I wonder how many more stories there are which involve this kind of ritual of being immersed for invulnerability? 
 
What about Germanic hero Sigurd (Siegfried)? We should search for some differences, not similarites!
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