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Corruption in NYC Fire Companies?

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boobookitty0104 View Drop Down
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  Quote boobookitty0104 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Corruption in NYC Fire Companies?
    Posted: 17-Apr-2011 at 23:26
I remember in my AP American History class, we were told in conjunction with the Tammany Hall unit that a fire company, in my recollection associated with William Tweed, used to earn money by discreetly setting fires to businesses and homes and standing idly by as the building burned, only putting the fire out when the occupant of the burning building paid a fee.

Now that I'm looking for specifics on this information, I can't seem to find a record of the incident I'm looking for. I think it was probably pre-1865, as that is when volunteer fire companies were outlawed in NYC, however I'm not entirely certain that it was a volunteer company. I've looked at Tweed's Americus Six, the company that he was a member of, and have found no allegations matching the one described by my teacher.

Does anyone know which fire company my teacher was referring to or if, perhaps, he was misremembering a similar incident? I'm researching this in conjunction with a paper regarding Tweed's corruption pre-Tammany Hall, so if you aren't aware of the specific event I'm referring to but can think of other Tweed-related fire company corruption stories, that would be helpful.

Please remember to cite your sources when answering, as a lack of cited sources is what has led me to ask this question in the first place.
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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Apr-2011 at 23:56
tuff one. Best bet is to try the records of the NYC Fire Commsioner..he was originaly a member of Engine Number 12 Company...but what you looking for deals with potential criminal enterprise so the NYC Police commssioner records are apt as well. Links should be available.
 
 
Also there is the The Encyclopedia of New York City. . ISBN 0-300-05536-6.
 
 
Hershkowitz, Leo. Tweed's New York: Another Look, 1977.

Lynch, Denis T. Boss Tweed The story of a grim generation. Blue Ribbon Books NY first print 1927 copyright Boni & Liveright Inc.

Mandelbaum, Seymour J. Boss Tweed's New York, 1965. ISBN 0471566527

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  Quote Pellaeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2011 at 00:05
You seem rather intent on finding out. this is the second forum I know of that you've asked this question (and no other questions)

Edited by Pellaeon - 18-Apr-2011 at 00:06
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  Quote boobookitty0104 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2011 at 00:36
Thank you, Centrix Vigilis. I actually have copies of Lynch's and Hershkowitz's books, but I'll definitely check out the Mandelbaum, Burrows/Wallace, and the Encyclopedia when the libraries open tomorrow. I'll also see if I can hunt up any records of the Fire Commissioner and let you know if I turn up anything.

And if you're referring to the Historum forums, Pellaeon, then yes, I did post there. I'm not a History major and usually don't have the need for this sort of in depth questioning, so I wasn't entirely sure where to start. I figured I'd try both and see which one would be most helpful for my future needs. So far, this site appears to be more prompt, if nothing else.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2011 at 10:42
If you want a primary source, check out Herbert Astbury's Gangs of New York. Firefighters would often brawl with their rivals rather than tackle the blaze. Additionally firemen may have started many fires so they could loot the burning property
Link to some period images

Edited by Nick1986 - 18-Apr-2011 at 11:23
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2011 at 11:00
There are other places that might have more info than that associated with NYC.  This wasn't unique to NYC.  Philadelphia was where the first Volunteer FD was organized.  However the oldest recognized Fire co. in the US is The Union in Mt Holly NJ.  They have their first piece of fire fighting equipment, a Franklin pumper.  It's still housed and kept ready to go.  Unless your professor has singled out a particular event, you should be aware that the type of event your speaking of was a common occurrance.  Which is why the system was changed.
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  Quote boobookitty0104 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2011 at 22:47
Nick1986, thank you very much. Though not exactly what I was originally looking for, I did find a brilliant bit in The Gangs of New York about the rivalry between fire companies that I intend to use. Thank you for your help. On a separate note, would you happen to know where you came across the information about firefighters looting burning buildings? I haven't seen it so far in Gangs of New York, but perhaps I haven't read far enough.

Centrix Vigilis, the only other book I found today was Mandelbaum's, but I'll keep you posted if I find what I'm looking for.

And Red Clay, the problem I'm having is that I can't really find specific citations of any fire company at all setting fires to buildings, at least not in the NYC-related records I've looked at thus far. I do remember quite clearly that this teacher of mine had taught us about fire companies setting their own fires in conjunction with Tammany Hall, however I'm not finding much a record of that. I'm beginning to think he was confusing his historical events, but it would be helpful if I could find which specific event he was confusing Tammany Hall with.
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2011 at 08:47
I don't know why the links aren't working. Volunteer firemen were involved in the Draft Riots

Tina Dapuy: firefighting in the 1800s

Fire Department NY

Ernest Roberts: Draft Riots

Edited by Nick1986 - 19-Apr-2011 at 12:10
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2011 at 19:43
I seem to remember an old Irish song about firemen who started fires as well as put them out. They poured on kerosine so the fire burned for longer, either to impress the crowd with their bravery, or as a cover for looting
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