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what happens?

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Athena View Drop Down
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: what happens?
    Posted: 16-Apr-2011 at 13:59
Here is the most important riddle of all time for you to figure out.

Following the crusades the church spread knowledge of Greek and Roman classics throughout all the countries of Europe.  Its intention was to secure its legitimacy, using the classics to prove it had truth.  Its contender for power and control was the Holy Roman Empire, which did not have experience with Greek and Roman law and culture.   As we should know this conflict for power leads to the Protestant Reformation, and years of war between Protestants and Catholics, and finally a return of democracy.  The religious conflict still is not resolved, but we are distracted from it by a new contender for power and control, Islam.  However, as Christians are divided, so are Muslims divided, and the divisions have the same Greek and Roman religious root.  

To cut free from the Holy Roman Empire, the folks on the Roman side used rediscovered Roman Law to claim legitimate separation from the German controlled Holy Roman Empire.  The city of Bologna was essential to this development, because thanks to Fredrick I it got a charter for the first university since the fall of Rome. 

http://wiki.ask.com/List_of_oldest_universities_in_continuous_operation?qsrc=3044

"The knowledge of Roman Law had probably never been allowed to die out entirely, though it was long thought that the growth of this study dated from an alleged discovery of a copy of the Pandects of Justinian made in 1135 at the sack of Amalfi.   However that may be, there grew up in several of these cities schools for the study of law.  That at Bologna was made famous by the greatest of these early teachers,Irnerius (1067-1138), in the same manner that Abelard raised Paris to distinction, and large numbers of students collected here....

At Bologna the first charter was given by Emperor Frederick I, in 1158....
By the period of the classical Renaissance there existed some seventy-five or eighty of these institutions scattered over all the countries of Europe."


The original focus of this university begins with the Pandects of Justinian and the study of law.  To appreciate this, we must know when Rome fell, the remaining power was the church, and the power was no longer located in Rome, because the power had shifted to the Germans.  This is not just a shift in power, but a radical change in consciousness!  Imagine having no awareness of governing political bodies that make laws.   There is only nature and it is violent and threatening, and then there is God and all that is good.  Imagine not questioning that all authority rests in the church, because you know absolutely nothing about politics and people making laws, and the church also totally lacks consciousness of anything expect its own dogma.   The church had rejected the Greek and Roman classics, as the work of pagans, and could not possibly rule as Greeks and Romans ruled.   Seriously, study the bible and forget everything else you know of government.  It is a book of kings and slaves.  What kind of law does this book give us for government and today's understanding of reality and rule by law?   Now reintroduce Roman law and Greek reasoning and logic without religion.  What happens to the power of the Pope in Rome when he can prove Rome has a legitimate claim of separation from Germany?  What happens to our understanding of truth and law when a mass of people become literate in Greek and Roman classics?   Again, what happens to the power of the church?  What happens to our consciousness?   What happens to our understanding of law and social/political organization?  

 

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cavalry4ever View Drop Down
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  Quote cavalry4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2011 at 09:44
Crusades did not spread too much of knowledge of antiquity. They managed to burn library of Constantinople. The spread of knowledge was done through the demise of Western Caliphate and the fact that it had the biggest, post antiquity library (20,000 volumes). There was a time when the whole caravans of donkeys across Pyrenees carried nothing but books. This is why Sorbonne became a major trouble spot.
The Roman law died. It brought some such fun things as trying pigs (England) in the curt of law. Some historians studied books that were brought to Germany. They had a margin comments as "Common Law - what is it?"
Worth to look at Maimonides that influenced Christian Philosophy through Thomas d'Aquinas and Albert the Great.


Edited by cavalry4ever - 13-May-2011 at 09:44
"Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul."
Mark Twain
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medenaywe View Drop Down
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-May-2011 at 09:49
How many of those 20000 still exist?Link please? 
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ducky View Drop Down
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  Quote ducky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2011 at 13:54
Looks to me like Athena posted a link.  It is right above the quote. 

I was listening to college lectures about Russia, and was surprised to learn about the role those classics played in the educated people of Russia revolting against those in power, who still had the power to hold people as surfs.   I think it was the long of years of holding people as surfs that led to violent over throw of the establishment and the church that supported the establishment, and then became the communist revolution and determination to make religion taboo. 

Learning the history of Russia has made me to think of the Russians differently, than I thought of them during the cold war when our opinion of Russians was shaped by propaganda, instead of a knowledge of their history.  They did fight for the liberties we enjoy, and it was the classics that lead both Europeans and Russians to fight for liberty.
Now isn't that just ducky
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Karalem View Drop Down
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  Quote Karalem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2011 at 13:55
You have it all upside down. I don't blame it on you though. The church was a tool, a comrade of the mighty Romans. The thing is it secured its position within the system and finally outgrew its non ecclesiastical partner. It  split into confessions, the north Germanic confessions became independent from Rome, the English took a way out on its own either.

Holy Roman Empire was not a contender of ancient Rome.  It was the successor. It is within the Holy Roman Empire where Greek and Latin thrived. It never made that much progress into the developing Germanic confessions where good economy was backed up by people like Martin Luther, himself a Christian. The Protestants invented modern world as it is till now, and shed away the ancient regime of kings and slaves in a peaceful manner, one small step at a time, unlike the French and later Russians; through revolutions.
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