What have the Greeks done these past 2,000 years?

We must define the term language and the term alphabet.      The oldest descriptions of the greek language are the mycenian monuments (1600-1100 BC )   .  The alphabet of mykenian greek is the linear B  .  Later since 1000 and 900 BC the Greeks adopted the alphabet from the Phoenicians and perfected it  with the vocalisation and so they invent the first ''true'' alphabet.     The Homeric Poems (800 BC)  are one of the older written documents with the  ''modern greek alphabet''.

The Rosetta Stone is  much younger . He is from 196 BC  from Ptolemy Egypt.  It's written in egyptian gieroglyphs, demotic egyptian and  ancient greek . The  Rosseta Stone was so far I know very helpful to the egyptian archeologists ...

Hello   . I 'm a  greek native speaker so I speak modern greek very well.    Ancient Greek is more difficult and although many modern Greeks do know the ancient form I sadly know till now only the basics of it.

I know only the basics of the developement!   Mycenian language 1600-1100 BC ...     Homeric language was used from the poets in the geometric ages but I don't know which language was spoken from the normal people .

After the 500 BC we have the rise of the Athenian/Ioanian language. Later  the MAcedonians make the attic form   the official language of the hellenistic east....    so the hellenistic koini is basically a evolved attic dialect...

 In the antiquity the greek languge was (Classical age) only with great letters and without spaces (ΜΗΔΕΝΑΓΑΝΚΑΙΤΟΛΑΚΩΝΙΖΕΙΝΕΣΤΙΦΙΛΟΣΟΦΕΙΝ) 

LAter in the hellenistic age and in the medieval ages they add spaces, tonic symbols and they made the letters small..

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis Originally posted by Vagos Hello to all history lovers :D .....        Truely I think  the study of history is one of the most important studies to achieve wisdom and knowledge about the world and the humans...We must be OBJEKTIVE with all sources and all sides....    Objektivity is the main gift that History can give to the human mind.Greece in the lst 2.000 years was under Roman rule untill 1453  , than under Ottoman rule untill 1821 and than the ''Greeks'' Romioi  revolted and achieved with help of the Europeans their indepedence....     Greece took part in the world wars and specially in the WW2 with big loses(and the first allied victory against the Axis(Italy) )Today has Greece many financial problems but I don't think it's a point of this discussion (fact is we hope that we can solve the problems in some years, the key is to think positive) Historically the Roman Empire survived untill 1453. The people of the late medieval Roman Empire (''Byzantine'') saw themselves as Romans , but they spoke from the 6 and 7century AD the greek language.   The greek language was the international language of the east mediteranian  and even of the whole mediteranian in the prime of the classic Roman empire. Every educated Roman knew ancient Greek.  Racially the Eastromans were mixed (Greeks, Latins, egyptians, Syrians, Thracians, Illyrians , Germanics etc. ) but they saw themeselves as Roman citizens because of the christian religion and the greek language .They  described their Empire as Romania or  kratos romion (land of the romans) . The Western Europeans described the Eastromans (Byzantines) as Empire or as Imperum Grecorum(because of the Greek language).   The Franks etc. described the Eastromans as Greeks because they claimed forthemselves the title of the divine Roman Empire of God (example Holy Roman Empire )After the split of the christian churches and after the 1100 and 1200 wars the Eastromans with borders only in lands greek native speakers  they tried to find a new model of understandig themselves .  They fand the ancient Greeks  who were rejekted as idololatrics in eralier centuries.. so they begann to see themselves also as descendants of the Hellenes... Very helpful in this case was the use of the greek language...I mean the Eastroman Emnpire of 600 AD was not the same with the ''hellenized'' Eastroman Empire of 1300 or 1450 .  We must unerstand this very important point. After the Ottoman rule the christians Romioi revolted in the south  Balcan.   Many of them spoke the greek language so in the sense of the nationalistic age they saw themselves as descendants of the ancient Greeks(Ancient Greece was at the time very admired from the Europeans and the ancient Greeks very very romanticed in thei views).Because of this the modern Greeks rejekted the folkloric name Romios . They wanted to use the ancient name Hellinas (Έλληνας).Sure are some modern Greeks relate with the ancient Greeks but fact is that all nations are mixed. The lanugage and the culture  makes a nation not the ''blood"..To the achievements of the Eastromans , Ottoman Greeks ,  modern Greeks :  As mentioned above the Eastromans christianiced the Slavics. They formed their first alphabet  and they helped the Renesance movement in Italy...   They also defend the southeastern borders of europe for centuries  :D . The ''greek fire''  of the Eastromans was one of the most amazing naval weapons of the time  and Constantinople was almost invincible in the eyes of the neighbours..The philosophy and theology of the Eastroman empire influenced the Western theologians, but to  be honest some christians Eastromans also made many crimes agaisnt the pagan populations of the Empire. This was sadly a big loss  for the ancient philosophy and religion.     My apologies for getting back late to you. But on behalf of the staff and forum welcome here. Obviously from your posts you have a keen appreciate of many things. To include Greek culture and society. Continue to have fun and interact. I appreciate your input.   Thanks

I second this to a fellow person of Greek roots-   

Not designed to cause a political problem, but I would doubt that not one tenth of them could actually claim relationship to the Greeks, existing before 1200 CE?, much less 1200 BCE!

I mean heck, our history even states that the entire place was mostly un-inhabited for about 400 years or so.

If anything, I do agree with many Slavs here, by asserting, with no real knowledge of the process, that the majority of persons now living within the confines of the boundaries of the nation we know of as Greece, cannot prove Greek ancestry thru blood tests, etc., of any kind! Ottoman, Italian, Frankish, Spanish, Germanic or Slavic relations might exist in strong portions but not the "genes" of the ancient Greeks.

Reasoning? No one has, to my knowledge ever been able to test the blood or dna of a real ancient Greek!

But, perhaps without causing another "war of words", someone might well be able to correct me?

I have been to Greece, as well as numerous places where the statues of the ancient Greeks are encased in stone, and I never saw one of these people while I stayed in Greece. Do any of you current Greeks see yourselves while looking into a mirror?

Dear moderator, if you think that my words above will start a flame, then please remove them!

Note, I also believe that the same thing also applies to those persons who now call themselves as Jews!

Even most of the Welsh might have the same problem, and the same with the Britons!

Regards,
Ron

Edited by opuslola - 26-May-2011 at 17:08

It is a welcome change when on of my off the wall remarks does not get immediately filled with everything but death threats.

Thanks to Baal!

hello eaglecap , it's a honor to met you !

@opuslola  Hello Ron . Your comment is very interesting, but I think you're partly right and partly wrong.

I mean  of course are not all Greeks descendants of ancient Greeks.      After 2.000 years  change many things ...  Do you think the Italian , the german , the french  or other nations are ALL exactly the same people with the archaic people that lived there ?

Do you think the ancient Greeks  of  1 BC were ALL "genetically"  the same with the Greeks of 500 BC  or do you think that the Greeks of 500 BC were  ALL genetically the same with the  people that lived 1000 or 2.000 years before ? 

So far I know was the ancient Greek population  a mix from indoeuropeans and indigenous people that lived there .

Even the indigenous people that lived there 2.000 BC were not the same with the indigenous people that lived there 5.000 or 10.000 BC

About the appereance   I have seen some people that are similar to  the statues , some are less similar ..  But that's  very subjektive ....  The statue is a romantical icon of a single being ... 

Basically you 're wrong  about the 400 years . I'm not sure which period you mean , but if you mean the period of the ottoman rule you 're wrong.  The south balcan was always populated  while the ottoman rule.

Generally I don't believe that ''blood'' is important. The culture , the language and the tradition makes a nation , not the blood...  I mean  modern Greeks  speak and write a language that is written since 2.500 years.    The Greeks are the only  european nation that speak and write a non-latin alphabet( this is not a ethnocentric view , this is only a realistic and objektive statement)

Greetings to all