What have the Greeks done these past 2,000 years?

Originally posted by Anothroskon A very good point. Since modern Greeks (mistakenly in my opinion) choose to emphasize their putative descent from the ancient Greeks they have changed their ethnonym from Romioi (i.e. Romans in the sense of the people of Nova Roma/Constantinopl,  not the Latins) to Hellenes that gets overlooked. Another factor adding to that is that both Western historians (to appropriate Roman history as entirely Western) and modern Greek historians (to appropriate  medieval Roman history as essentially Hellenic) subscribe to the Byzantium fallacy.

I agree and like my old history teacher would say the modern Greeks are descendants of the ancient Greeks plus everyone else who came along.

Being half Greek I really connect much more with the Byzantines(Romans) than ancient Greece. I enjoy both histories though!

I have been to Greece three times but I am not sure what their modern day contributions are, but it is a good question.

I know Greek Americans, for being such a small minority, have made major contributions in; science, art and the media.

Some Greek American publication had an article about this but right now I cannot recall which one.

It was either Odyssey or Greek American Magazine-??

Edited by eaglecap - 20-Apr-2011 at 19:34

Why do you deny Byzantine roots Anothroskon?Greeks today have accepted all that connected them with pre roman period but deny Roman period!Phoenicians were Persian merchants that created colonies all around Mediterranean sea.In 525 b.c. almost all coastal area was conquered by Persia and independence of Phoenicians colonies was destroyed.Hegemony was established with Philip 2,high taxes to Persia would had been avoided.In the same time Danayan's king could liberated Danayans lands and population all around Mediterranean till Egypt there homeland(Upper Egypt more precisely).

Originally posted by medenaywe Do not allow Greeks,to push you in conflict with comprehensive dimensions,CV and Athena!?!Let us talk about Greeks and all that they have stolen from other nations history or have contributed themselves for history. Byzantine Empire had many phases different one from other!Yes, people of masters call themselves Romei.(y)This structure was heterogeneous with lot of ethnic groups.Masters were  5% of Empire and the rest were Vulgaris.V=Beta letter from Greek language.Documents we have about it are talking about masters and very little about ordinary people.

Thank you for putting this on a more positive footing, because it is my desire to make a point.  This is a very important point that we need to grasp as we make decisions about today's world.  I sincerely hope others read this post that has taken me about an hour to write, because knowing something is not equal to having the words to explain that knowing to another.  

Yes, the Greeks adopted much from surrounding civilizations, but it is what they did with this knowledge that makes all the difference.  It is my understanding from reading books, that they gave us a system of logic that separates the east from the west.   It is my understanding in the east logic is circular and I think this is why the east is known for creating religions.  We can point to the thinkers in Athens, especially Aristotle, and see what linear thinking did to human consciousness.  But he is not the only one who contributed to this new consciousness, and I don't think it became so materialistic until going through Rome.   Before Rome, I think the consciousness would be more animistic. 

My X naturally had a mechanical mind.  In a physics class he could resolve a practical problem none of the other students could resolve. However, he just could not grasp theory.  This is the difference between the vast knowledge Egyptians had in surveying and building, and what the Greeks gave us.  Starting with Euclid and Pythagoras we get theory.  What was developed through math, becomes Aristotle's logic system.    So now with this concept of theory, the Parthenon is not just built well, as the common Egyptian labor could build, but it is adjusted to create visual perfection.   Leading us into Pluto's concept of perfect forms that kind of tweak our perception of reality.  This is a move from concrete thinking to abstract thinking, and that is what these people gave the world.

Byzantine is a whole different thing.  For that matter so are Spartans Greeks who were completely different from Athenians.  No way could the developments in Athens happen in Sparta.  But an unfortunate thing happened in Athens.  This goes with what I was saying about writing and thinking.   Once it is written, there is written authority, and this has both benefits and drawbacks. 

When Athens began expanding and colonizing the region around them, their education became focused on technological correctness.  See the shift in education?  They went from teaching people how to think, to teaching them what to think.  This is deadly to thinking.   Interestingly the US made the same mistake in the same period of time.  That is from liberal education to education for technology, giving us technological and political correctness that did not exist before.   (the history of education can tell us more about history and the human mind, then any other study of history, and I regret there is not a good understanding of where I am coming from, because this study is so unknown.  I now understand the frustration of the first people who saw germs and then to convince people with no bases for scientific thinking that sanitation is important). 

A student who has excellent memory and is good at parroting the teacher, will score high on test.  Unfortunately, the ability to score high on test, does not prove the ability to think abstractly nor does a prove a good understanding of the meaning of what is learned.  That is, the child may score very high on the math test by parroting, but may not be able to advance in math studies, because of failure to understand the theory.    The No Child Left Behind Act puts a priority on good parroting, taking it away from good comprehension.   This means we stand to loose the benefit of what the Greeks gave us.   This has terrible political consequences, and now on to a discussion of international politics and settling differences with guns.  Does anyone get what I am saying?  We can not think the same unless we are educated the same, and those who have a different education will not have the same understanding of reality.   Not just because their basic reality is different, but their ability to perceive reality is different.  

ps. I mean they formed the fist slavic alphabet with mixed latin,greek and slavic symbols...

Athena I think you are a little biased....       Aristotle was a great thinker without daubt but many great thinkers existed in the East and in the West.     linear logic ???? Aristotle claimed also that the normal behaviour of the things is the situation of no-movement. He claimed  that the earth is in the center of the Universe ......   both are wrong with the standarts of modern science .... 

Many nations had philosophy and it's a gift for our modern generation that we can study all of them  due to the modern technology.   

About the history of education you 're  right.   We must try to find similarities  between the cultures.

Hello , it's nice to see people who also love history . I'm not sure but I think the Romans used this term as they were confronted with the Greeks .  

I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Greece

Aristotle and Hesiod use the name Graecus ΓΡΑΙΚΟΣ and  some people in Ipirus called themselves also so.    It seems that the Romans took it from there and generallized it into all hellenic people...

The ancient Greeks called themselves Hellines Έλληνες  or in the Homeric Poems Acheans , Danaens and Argives ( Αχαιοί  , Δαναοί  ,  Αργίτες)  .    

Greetings :P

What do you mean  with brothers Graecus ????     Give me please historical links to your claims. The name Graecus is also mentioned as I said from Aristotetle and Hesiod , so  those sources are much older than the brothers Graecus ...   But  give me  links to those brothers  ... 

Hello medenaywe ! Thanks for your informations.    The two brothers were truely good people with humanistic aims . It's very sad that hey get murdered by the patricians ..  They had a greek education. It's maybe because of this  that they had this name..

We must be very careful with the alleged similiarity of names... the word "Greek" in Latin was GRAECUS .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Greece

The name of Tiberius and Gaius was to be precise GRACCHUS .  I'm not  sure if they are relate.

It's possible that  they took the name because they wanted to give lands of Greece to the poor people  or because of the fact that they had simply a greek education in oraty and  politic science.

I would very happy if I could see scientific sources who back up exactly why they took this name ...

Greetings from Greece :D

If roman soldiers received land,natives would have been transformed in slaves?This is hypothesis only,of course! 

You have excellent English and most of all,You have analytical approach  in History.Balkans people history was reason for conflicts and wars only.There were only stressed differences among nations and avoided similarities!Graecus brothers were probably part of ancient,"socialism" part in Roman history,that had been disputed and forgotten after.Research is on.

When did Greek language appear?Creator was know as human?This language and his signs appeared on
Rosetta Stone.Third inscription is with alphabet,today known as Greek.