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Indians have black ancestors

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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indians have black ancestors
    Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:36
this thread didn't get much attention but i am posting it again:
 
Ancestoral South Indians who originally inhabited much of south asia some 20000-30000 years ago were actually africans. The proof of this lies on the east coast of india, on the Andaman and Nicobar islands:
 
Andaman islands lie in the middle of bay of bengal east of india and the people over there are not considered african, but look like this:
 
 
 
 


Edited by balochii - 13-Apr-2011 at 17:38
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:37

Ancestral South Indians were a postulated ancient people who are considered to be one of the two main populations that contributed to the genetic heritage of modern-day South Asian ethnic groups.[1][2] They are believed to have been genetically unique and not closely related to any other human populations in the world.[2] Of all modern-day Indians, only the Andamanese are believed to possess Ancestral South Indian lineage without admixture of any Ancestral North Indian genetic heritage.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_South_Indians
 
 
more info on them from this article: http://knol.google.com/k/the-little-...daman-islands#



A Negrito Tribe of tiny but fierce Pygmies , the Jarawa Tribe, of the Andaman Islands in the Indian Ocean, provides an excellent example of what modern humans were like when they first emerged out of Africa. Genetic evidence hints at a Negrito presence on the Andaman Islands in India going back more than 30,000 years, and possibly reaching as far back as 60,000 years. It is thought that the surviving Negritos are a remnant population representing an early ( perhaps the earliest ) migration of modern Homo Sapiens out of Africa

The language that the Negritos of the Andaman Islands speak, is a part of the "Malay-Australoid" group of languages, which interestingly is related to the language of the large island of Madagascar, which is located off the east coast of Southern Africa. This shows that there was a linguistic connection to Africa as well as Southeast Asia, and the Australian Aborigines. Recent analysis of the DNA of the "Great Andamanese" (one of the other three tribes of Negritos on the Andaman Islands) shows that they are genetically very close to the "Bushmen' or "Pygmies" of South Africa. This shows that the Andaman Tribes came from the South of Africa and the island of Madagascar. The Negritos must have originally been the dominate stone culture of Southern Africa, until the "big people" from the North invaded and took over the land, pushing them out. Perhaps they turned to the sea as a source of food because they were unable to compete for food with the "big people", or because the land was too barren to support them. On the mainland of Southern Africa, they would have been absorbed, driven out, or killed by the "big people", or forced to live where there were no "big people" like the African Pygmies who survived... But those with boats could have populated Madagascar and been the dominant culture of Madagascar long after the mainland was over run by the "big people". Then when the "big people" did get boats and began to arrive in small groups, they would not have had the strength of numbers to drive out or kill the "little people", but instead were assimilated into the population, so that some of the language of the little people lives on in Madagascar, even to this day.

If the Negritos were the first, or one of the first, waves of modern man to migrate out of Africa, and assuming they did it in small boats... They would have been the dominate culture along the coasts and islands of Asia. This seems likely because their language is linked with many ancient languages of the area. They are probably ancestors of the dark skinned peoples of Southern India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, The East Indies, and even the Australian Aborigines. They were probably the dominate culture of many of these area, until once again, invaders from the north over ran and absorbed them, killed them, or pushed them off the mainland, and off the most desirable islands. But on some islands, the Negritos retreated to remote valleys, and mountain refuges, where they lingered on, out of sight of the "big people". And on some isolated remote islands ( like the Andaman Islands ) that were considered uninhabited , they continued to survive undisturbed.


Edited by balochii - 13-Apr-2011 at 17:37
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:40
i am not saying today indians are 100% africans, today's indians are hybrid of the original black people of india and the many caucasians who came from places like central asia, europe, middle east etc...
 
all this mixing took way before the aryan invasions and all the other invasions that took place some 5000 years ago, we are talking about a period about 20,000 years ago, though south indians/sri lankans and bengalis still have high genetic similarity to them. Even in pakistan if you notice the rural population of the indus valley in punjab/sindh is mainly dark skinned and looks similar to south indians


Edited by balochii - 13-Apr-2011 at 17:44
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:46
Looks like you made the effort and did some good research.
And while ethnography and ethnogenesis are not my fortay...perhaps you should continue...write a paper and submit for scholastic review. Best of luck if you do.
 
 
 
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:48
Originally posted by balochii

i am not saying today indians are 100% africans, today's indians are hybrid of the original black people of india and the many caucasians who came from places like central asia, europe, middle east etc...
As a side note, the negritos of Africa, India, The Phillipines and Thailand are very few in number and are considered a seperate race from other Africans.  The genetic impact of negritos outside of Africa is very, very small since negrito groups were very small to start with and were quickly overwhelmed by other peoples.
Originally posted by balochii

They are probably ancestors of the dark skinned peoples of Southern India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, The East Indies, and even the Australian Aborigines.
I odnt think wilkipedia is correct here.  Australoids have entirely different physical features than negritos.  Both groups may have left Africa very early with the Australoids being more successful.


Edited by Cryptic - 13-Apr-2011 at 17:52
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  Quote unclefred Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:49
I've heard this recently on another forum, from an Indian fellow. He seemed to dispute the Aryan migrations although he did admit to the etymological evidence. I didn't realize the Africans moved into S.Asia that early. Interesting, thank you.
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:52
 well 20000 years ago they inhabitated much of india yes in small numbers but the worlds population was small then, infact even today on mainland india  they exist in small numbers, mainly living in jungles. Genetic evidence has clearly shown that the term (ancestoral south indian) is applied to them and most south asians still do have ancestoral south indian dna in them, but ofcourse they also have a lot of west eurasian dna in them also, meaning they are mostly hybrid today

Edited by balochii - 13-Apr-2011 at 17:54
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:58
Originally posted by balochii

^ well 20000 years ago they inhabitated much of india yes in small numbers but the worlds population was small then, infact even today on mainland india  they exist in small numbers, mainly living in jungles. Genetic evidence has clearly shown that they term (ancestoral south indian) is applied to them. Most of south asia is hybrid today
I agree wtha most of South India is hybrid, I just disagree on how much influence the very small in number negrito groups have had on South Indians.  I think there is far more Australoid influence in south India than Negrito.
Originally posted by balochii

. Even in pakistan if you notice the rural population of the indus valley in punjab/sindh is mainly dark skinned and looks similar to south indians
Perhaps they are of partial Australoid descent.  Also, caucasoid complections can range from very light to relatively dark (Somalians and Ethiopians are caucasoids).   My guess is that the people of the indus valley are almost entirely of caucasoid DNA (with darker complections). 


Edited by Cryptic - 13-Apr-2011 at 17:58
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 17:59
Originally posted by unclefred

I've heard this recently on another forum, from an Indian fellow. He seemed to dispute the Aryan migrations although he did admit to the etymological evidence. I didn't realize the Africans moved into S.Asia that early. Interesting, thank you.
 
yup, south asia was one of the first place they landed, basically they crossed the somali coast and lived in south arabia for a while and then they crossed in to modern day pakistan from Oman which is only like 150 km away from southern arabia
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 18:03
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by balochii

^ well 20000 years ago they inhabitated much of india yes in small numbers but the worlds population was small then, infact even today on mainland india  they exist in small numbers, mainly living in jungles. Genetic evidence has clearly shown that they term (ancestoral south indian) is applied to them. Most of south asia is hybrid today
I agree wtha most of South India is hybrid, I just disagree on how much influence the very small in number negrito groups have had on South Indians.  I think there is far more Australoid influence in south India than Negrito.
Originally posted by balochii

. Even in pakistan if you notice the rural population of the indus valley in punjab/sindh is mainly dark skinned and looks similar to south indians
Perhaps they are of partial Australoid descent.  Also, caucasoid complections can range from very light to relatively dark (Somalians and Ethiopians are caucasoids).   My guess is that the people of the indus valley are almost entirely of caucasoid DNA (with darker complections). 
 
Australoid are also decendants of Negrito though, Negrito are an older group. Australoid have also mixed a bit with others maybe thats why their features have become a bit caucasian, but these Negrito that i posted haven't mixed with any one else and thats why they have their original features.
 


Edited by balochii - 13-Apr-2011 at 18:04
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 21:23
they speak hindi too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_f0-AcOF2k
 
I understand what they are saying
 


Edited by balochii - 13-Apr-2011 at 21:35
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2011 at 21:30
I think all of us specially south asians should make huge efforts to save these people, their numbers are not huge, even with in mainland india they are almost gone
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2011 at 13:35
Originally posted by balochii

I think all of us specially south asians should make huge efforts to save these people, their numbers are not huge, even with in mainland india they are almost gone
Not just in India, but groups in Thailand, Malaysia and the Phillipines are also either almost extinct or merged with the asiatic majorities.


Edited by Cryptic - 14-Apr-2011 at 13:36
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2011 at 13:39
While variety is interesting, so this thread is interesting,  am I having trouble appreciating the discussions about who is what, because I do not understand the meaningfulness of labeling people this or that.   Humans mixed a lot, so what does it matter if one is a Kurd, Jew, or whatever? 

Why try to save a gene line?  Is this like trying to save a rare flower?  Should saving this group of people mean not allowing them to intermix with others?   What is important about their separateness?

Aren't we all descended from animals that became human in Africa, and migrated out of Africa?   At what point did some people's skin turn light coloured?   Should people avoid mixing to keep genetically pure?  Why?  When we go to heaven, that ideal place of perfection, will people of different gene groups remain separated to preserve their perfection?    What is the benefit of this and what might be a problem?  
 
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2011 at 14:30
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by balochii

I think all of us specially south asians should make huge efforts to save these people, their numbers are not huge, even with in mainland india they are almost gone
Not just in India, but groups in Thailand, Malaysia and the Phillipines are also either almost extinct or merged with the asiatic majorities.
 
yes but in those countries i think all their population is wiped out, only in india and some south east asian island countries like (papua new guinea) their population survives, also you must realise that oriental looking population of south east asian countries actually came from the north ( china/mongolia) and settled there, they are not related to these people genetically, before that the population of south east asia was mostly either austrolid or negritos


Edited by balochii - 14-Apr-2011 at 14:33
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2011 at 14:32
Originally posted by Athena

While variety is interesting, so this thread is interesting,  am I having trouble appreciating the discussions about who is what, because I do not understand the meaningfulness of labeling people this or that.   Humans mixed a lot, so what does it matter if one is a Kurd, Jew, or whatever? 

Why try to save a gene line?  Is this like trying to save a rare flower?  Should saving this group of people mean not allowing them to intermix with others?   What is important about their separateness?

Aren't we all descended from animals that became human in Africa, and migrated out of Africa?   At what point did some people's skin turn light coloured?   Should people avoid mixing to keep genetically pure?  Why?  When we go to heaven, that ideal place of perfection, will people of different gene groups remain separated to preserve their perfection?    What is the benefit of this and what might be a problem?  
 
 
why not save them? they are our ancestors and they are rare, we have to save them to know who we are and what our history is. Wouldn't you wana save rare people like (kalash in pakistan) for example, who might be related to the first indo europeans


Edited by balochii - 14-Apr-2011 at 14:35
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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2011 at 14:40
When a population becomes isolated and very small, its genes are not the same as when the isolation occurred.  Change continues, but instead of increasing the possible variations that could occur in the gene pool, they loose the variety they once carried.   Kind of like a crayon box with fewer colors.    The genes are more specialized and less apt to meet survival challenges.  So saving an isolated group is not equal to having the original gene pool.    Their survival is increased by adding to gene pool, and is decreased by continued isolation.

http://books.google.com/books?id=5TRHOmTUTP4C&pg=PA39
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  Quote Galleon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2011 at 14:41
Hmmm...interesting. Well, I could provide more info here:
 
 
 
 
That's all is to it! Smile
 
 


Edited by Galleon - 14-Apr-2011 at 14:41
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Apr-2011 at 10:18
Originally posted by balochii

 
yes but in those countries i think all their population is wiped out, only in india and some south east asian island countries like (papua new guinea) their population survives, also you must realise that oriental looking population of south east asian countries actually came from the north ( china/mongolia) and settled there, they are not related to these people genetically, before that the population of south east asia was mostly either austrolid or negritos
 
I think you are right about the negritos in Thailand and Malaysia.  Now that I think of it, the people I read about were isolated Australoid tribes in those countries.  Phillipino negritos, however, still exist.
 
One source puts their current numbers at 20,000.  I think however, that this is high and counts people of mixed negrito background.
Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by Athena

Why try to save a gene line?  Is this like trying to save a rare flower?  Should saving this group of people mean not allowing them to intermix with others?   What is important about their separateness? 
 
why not save them? they are our ancestors and they are rare, we have to save them to know who we are and what our history is. Wouldn't you wana save rare people like (kalash in pakistan) for example, who might be related to the first indo europeans
I agree with Balochii.  Isolated ethnic groups such as Negritos, Kalash, San, Australoids etc. are a very important part of the story of humanity and can tell us alot about very early human history.


Edited by Cryptic - 15-Apr-2011 at 10:56
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Apr-2011 at 17:27
this is a really recent news http://www.harappadna.org/2011/04/reference-3-admixture-k11/
 
^ the recent dna results clearly indicate that the onge (Negrito) people of anadaman islands are closely related to most indians, basically many different indian groups espeically tribal indian people have huge chunk of dna which is similar to Onge people, this indicates that ancestors of Onge were once on living on mainland India and even to this day south indians and eastern indians share huge chunk of their dna with them.
 
But pakistanis for example are much more west eurasian in their genetic makeup, though they also have limited amount of Onge dna in them
 
all Anadamase people came from  mainland india, with time their populations got wiped out or got mixed with other people. But again this clearly gives evidence that they are the earliest ancestors of many indians and even south asians


Edited by balochii - 24-Apr-2011 at 17:30
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