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Raider
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Topic: Who is the greatest military leader of the medieval period? Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 05:04 |
I vote for Belisarius too.
By the way the leaders and nations who ruled western Europe later were all the subordinates of Attila. (Orastes and his son, Odoaker, the Merovings etc. Those who resisted him fell. That's why he has so bad reputation.
Edited by Raider
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Monteleone
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Posted: 23-Jun-2005 at 16:40 |
I voted for Belisarius, he is the military leader we know most about on a first hand basis. All the others, Great leaders but our information about their battles is mostly second hand.
Belisaruis's secretary Procopius wrote down the events as they where occuring. If you haven't read Procopius's History of the Wars, I highly recomend dong so. I felt I was standing on the ramparts of Rome while the Goth's where having their oxens pull the towers to walls. And I could just see all the Romans terrified, scrambling around in fear, and Belisarius coming on the rampart, standing there laughing before he.......
Don't want to spoil the rest. But a classic by all accounts. Poor Wittiges, he was clearly out Generaled
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 07:57 |
"the greatest military leader of the medieval period" is too general a criteria, i think. Not to mention the medieval period, which is a huge pool to catch THE fish, if you know what i mean.
Definitely, all of the above were great in a way or the other. Someone said here a big truth before: one leader's greatness might be justified exactly by the lack of a huge army to command and a great state/country to gather resources from. Therefor, i'd like to act as overpatriotic and mention at least one great romanian military leader from the mentioned period: Stefan cel Mare (Stephen the Great being the most used english name for him). He led Moldavia for 47 years, defending it against the Ottoman Empire (Mehmed the Second, Beyazid the Second), the Hungarian Empire (Matthias Corvinus) and Polish Empire (i'll be back with the name of their leader). All this battles had one aspect in common: the Moldavian army was significantly less numerous. Add this to the huge cultural heritage he left behind (check UNESCO for refferences).
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Richard XIII
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 10:31 |
Indeed, look on the Hundred Years' War there were small battles with at most 20.000 people on both sides.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Castillon the last battle (13-16.000 people)
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podul_Inalt
with (170.000 people)
A lot of people don't understand the contribution of Romanians at European civilization.
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...the rest are details."
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 13:31 |
It's about prestige. It's about propaganda. Half the graduates from foreign schools outside The Balkans hardly know where Romania is on the map, let aside its history or capital city. Throughout history, foreign countries understood the role of marketing, you know. Making national history sell itself: in books, in movies, in merchandise and whatnot. Romania is best known by Vlad Dracul (thanks, Bram Stoker) alone. Other countries managed to have influence around their neighbours, having raveging wars accompanied by expansionist periods. We managed the survive all our neighbours without loosing too much of our country's lands.
I'd be rather curious how many people around this forum can name some other romanian leaders, beside Vlad Dracul and Stefan cel Mare
Edited by Vicentius
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Richard XIII
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 13:45 |
Me, Vlad Catrina and Decebal and I think some turks
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Temujin
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 14:10 |
Originally posted by Vicentius
I'd be rather curious how many people around this forum can name some other romanian leaders, beside Vlad Dracul and Stefan cel Mare
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how about Ion Antonescu and Nicolae Ceausescu?
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TheodoreFelix
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 14:15 |
How offensive. Where is George Kastrioti Scanderbeg? He kept the Ottomans out of Medieval Albania for 25 years when they were at the top of their game and one of the very very few to receive "atleta christi" by the Catholic Church...
"Scanderbeg is one of the greatest generals ever"
Wrote the famouse Historian Ludvig Holberg in 1739
In one of his victories, he defeated an Ottoman army of 70,000 with just 15,000 Albanian soldiers. He kept the Ottomans out of kruja 3 times. On some occasions the castle had a garrison of as little as 3000-4000 Albanians against armies that were about the same size as the ones at Constantinople...
Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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Posted: 27-Jun-2005 at 14:58 |
Originally posted by Temujinhow about Ion Antonescu and Nicolae Ceausescu?[/QUOTE
True, but i was thinking of medieval leaders mainl |
True, but i was thinking of medieval leaders mainly. Nevertheless, it pleases me to see some answers to my question
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vulkan02
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Posted: 29-Jun-2005 at 18:37 |
Subedei Bahadur
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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minchickie
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Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 05:00 |
Attila the Hun-
"" Terrorized the Roman Empre in the 5th cetury A.D.""
In other words, he succeeded at what he did!
thats my vote.
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TJK
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Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 02:28 |
I'd be rather curious how many people around this forum can name some other romanian leaders, beside Vlad Dracul and Stefan cel Mare
it pleases me to see some answers to my question |
Hmm..let see, what about Bohdan Oneeyed, Peter Raresh, Michael the Brave, Jeremy and Simon Mohila, Stephen Tomza, Gapar Grazziani, Basil Lupul and Constantine Kantemir
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minchickie
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Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 07:51 |
Originally posted by Belisarius
Attila owed his success to the superiority of his fighting force, rather than tactical genius. It has been proven several times in history that the fast-moving horse archer is superior to slow-moving heavy infantry. The horses that Attila used were the swift ponies of the steppes which were much faster than the heavy warhorses bred in Europe. Even had the Romans bred faster horses, they relied much more on their infantry than cavalry. |
I highly disagree, since when does one owe their victory to the one they've defeated? He used different weapons, had less junk to lug around, was faster and better at arching and encircled his opponent' army from the outside in! Pretty genious if you ask me which is why he succeeded so well.
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Maju
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Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 09:01 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
Originally posted by Scytho-Sarmatian
Imagine how different
things would be today if he could have maintained his
dominance. |
I don't want to imagine that.
He might have been a great military leader, but the Huns weren't
exactly known for their cultural achievements. Eating raw horse meat
and dressing up in field-mice pants isn't really my cup of tea.
So, I'm rather relieved the Huns "civilisation" didn't really become the dominant one in Europe. |
Bah! They would had been assimilated eventually, as happened to Germans
and Magyars, or to Mongolians in China. Steak Tatar is good food, maybe
at the origins of modern hamburger and it has some merit to eat raw
meat. Fire? What for? I'm Atilla the scourge of God!
I should have voted for Atilla maybe... but I did for Saladin (just on sympathy I must admit).
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vulkan02
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Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 22:19 |
and what happend to Charlemagne how come he's not in the list????
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The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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timurshah
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Posted: 04-Dec-2005 at 10:06 |
my vote to Timur... because all the generals above only commanded their armies - but Timur also created his army himself... also he defeated Golden Horde Empire which was controlling the Euroasia and the Bayezid 1 which destroyed a outnumbering Crusader Army in Nigbolu in 25th 1396... isn't he,who defeated all t he military powers he fought , the greatest military leader?
*TMUR
WORLD LL ALWAYS REMEMBER HM...!
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Justinian
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Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 21:24 |
Tough choice but when I think of Belisarius' defence of Rome it becomes easier. I think someone made a remark about belisarius doing more with less, I wonder how much more he could have accomplished had Justinian given him more resources and support (or any).
Also, an honorable mention to those mongol generals, not just Genghis Khan. The forces they went up against were normally much bigger and they completely destroyed them.
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"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann
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Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 16:37 |
Originally posted by vulkan02
and what happend to Charlemagne how come he's not in the list???? |
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cg rommel
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Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 17:00 |
i dont know, genghis, or belisarius.....
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Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 06:08 |
How about William of Normandy when he got England in 1066? As He got the English land, England became a rising world power after his reign...
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