Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Winterhaze13
Colonel
Joined: 11-Nov-2004
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 716
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Who is the greatest military leader of the medieval period? Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 16:18 |
Who is the greatest military leader of the medieval period? Period considered is 400 to about 1450.
Belisarius (505-565 A.D.)- Thracian General for Byzantium, defeated the Persians and regained Italy. One of the most underappreciated in history.
Attila the Hun- Terrorized the Roman Empre in the 5th cetury A.D.
Theodoric- Ostrogoth, invaded Italy in the 5th century and established a Gothic kingdom there.
Clovis(R.481-511)- Frank, expanded the Kingdom to the Pyranees.
Heraclius- Byzantine, expanded the Empire eastward into Persia in the 7th century.
Richard I "Lionheart"- English King and crusader, went along on the third crusade and gained valuable territory for the Christina cause, although fell short of Jerusalem.
Saladin- Kurd and Ruler of Egypt in the late 12th century. Expanded into Syria and northern mesopotamia. Although, best known for winning the Battle of hattin to regain Jerusalem for the Muslim side in 1187.
Genghis Khan- Mongol, late 12th century and early 13th, unified Mongolia and expanded its Empire to China, Russia and much of Asia.
Tamerlane- Tarter, conquerored Persia and much of the middle east. Although many historians downplay his successes today. (R. 1381-1405)
Also:
Charles Martel and Charlemagne- Franks, Martel faught the Saracens in Spain, while Charles helped expand his empire eastward.
|
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
|
|
Komnenos
Tsar
Retired AE Administrator
Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 17:30 |
My vote went to Belisarius, not only because he almost singlehandedly led the East-Roman empire to it's largest ever territorial expansion,thereby defeating the two most vigorous Germanic tribes the Ostrogoths and the Vandals, but also he seems to have been a decent chap, unlike his two great Byzantine contemporaries and rivals Justinian and Narses, the Eunuch.
|
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
|
|
Perseas
General
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 14-Jan-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 781
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 20:35 |
I 'll also go with Belisarius. He was a brilliant strategist and in many cases the armies of his enemies were outnumbering his own army but it didnt stop him from defeating them. I have to mention also his loyalty to the emperor.
|
|
Dawn
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3148
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 22:04 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
My vote went to Belisarius, not only because he almost singlehandedly led the East-Roman empire to it's largest ever territorial expansion,thereby defeating the two most vigorous Germanic tribes the Ostrogoths and the Vandals, but also he seems to have been a decent chap, unlike his two great Byzantine contemporaries and rivals Justinian and Narses, the Eunuch.
|
sounds like an interesting fellow. would you have some good links on him?
|
|
Thracian
Knight
Joined: 01-Feb-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 97
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 00:20 |
that is amaizing. I did not know about this Belisarius. Makes sence that he was underappreciated as WinterHaze 13 mentioned. Not much is known about Thrace, I don't think, which is quite annoying.
|
|
Imperator Invictus
Caliph
Retired AE Administrator
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3151
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 00:40 |
Belisarius was surely the best commander of the Eastern Roman Empire
(or any Roman commander), and an interesting character nontheless. Few
commanders had such a distinguished career in arms, and at the same
time such an unfortunate ending. By the end of his career, Iustinian
grew fearful of his power even though he remained loyal throughout his
life. But due to such politics, he was reduced to a beggar by the end.
The tragic fall of his career gave way to rumors that he Iustinian had
him blinded. Belisarius also had an absolutely terrible love life.
Gibbons calls him "blessed in war, cursed in love"
Anyhow, there are too many people that would qualify for the nomination.
Among those listed, I chose Timur Lenk (Tamerlane) because no other
military leader commanded such fear as he did, and defeated so many
neighboring states. As "Prince of destruction" Genghis Khan pales
compared to Tamerlane. However, he was by no means the best leader in
both military and statesmanship.
|
|
Komnenos
Tsar
Retired AE Administrator
Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 01:42 |
Originally posted by Dawn
sounds like an interesting fellow. would you have some good links on him? |
As you are such an avid reader, there is a novel about him by Robert Graves, author of "I, Claudius". It's called "Count Belisarius".
|
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
|
|
Frederick Roger
Colonel
Joined: 09-Jan-2005
Location: Portugal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 658
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 09:07 |
Nuno lvares Pereira, the Holy Constable of Portugal. Too nationalistic a choise? Well.... yeah. Got a problem?
Edited by Frederick Roger
|
|
Dawn
Suspended
Suspended
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3148
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 10:35 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
Originally posted by Dawn
sounds like an interesting fellow. would you have some good links on him?
|
As you are such an avid reader, there is a novel about him by Robert Graves, author of "I, Claudius". It's called "Count Belisarius". |
I'll have to take a look for that one. thanks
|
|
Komnenos
Tsar
Retired AE Administrator
Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Apr-2005 at 17:14 |
Originally posted by Imperator Invictus
Few commanders had such a distinguished career in arms, and at the same time such an unfortunate ending. By the end of his career, Iustinian grew fearful of his power even though he remained loyal throughout his life. But due to such politics, he was reduced to a beggar by the end. The tragic fall of his career gave way to rumors that he Iustinian had him blinded.
|
The story that Belisarius ended as a blind beggar is, what we would call these days, an "urban myth."
Modern historians seem to agree that he died as a retired army officer on a modest pension on some estate in Anatolia at the age of sixty, with full eyesight.
Edited by Komnenos
|
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
|
|
Belisarius
Chieftain
Suspended
Joined: 09-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1296
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Apr-2005 at 00:33 |
Hmm... where do I start...
|
|
Scytho-Sarmatian
Earl
Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 290
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Apr-2005 at 03:14 |
My vote goes to the Scourge of God (Attila). Who else could have brought the varied forces together to take on the Roman Empire and bring it to its knees? However, he let success slip through his hands too easily. Imagine how different things would be today if he could have maintained his dominance.
|
|
Komnenos
Tsar
Retired AE Administrator
Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Apr-2005 at 06:37 |
Originally posted by Scytho-Sarmatian
Imagine how different things would be today if he could have maintained his dominance. |
I don't want to imagine that.
He might have been a great military leader, but the Huns weren't exactly known for their cultural achievements. Eating raw horse meat and dressing up in field-mice pants isn't really my cup of tea.
So, I'm rather relieved the Huns "civilisation" didn't really become the dominant one in Europe.
|
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
|
|
TJK
Consul
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 367
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Apr-2005 at 07:27 |
Originally posted by Dawn
Originally posted by Komnenos
Originally posted by Dawn
sounds like an interesting fellow. would you have some good links on him?
|
As you are such an avid reader, there is a novel about him by Robert Graves, author of "I, Claudius". It's called "Count Belisarius". |
I'll have to take a look for that one. thanks
|
Look also "Justinian and Theodora" by Robert Browning
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0500250995/002 -6558999-4324058?v=glance
|
|
Belisarius
Chieftain
Suspended
Joined: 09-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1296
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Apr-2005 at 11:08 |
Attila owed his success to the superiority of his fighting force, rather than tactical genius. It has been proven several times in history that the fast-moving horse archer is superior to slow-moving heavy infantry. The horses that Attila used were the swift ponies of the steppes which were much faster than the heavy warhorses bred in Europe. Even had the Romans bred faster horses, they relied much more on their infantry than cavalry.
|
|
Exarchus
General
Joined: 18-Jan-2005
Location: France
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 760
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Apr-2005 at 04:56 |
My vote goes to Philip II Augustus
|
Vae victis!
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Apr-2005 at 08:12 |
Originally posted by Winterhaze13
Attila the Hun- Terrorized the Roman Empre in the 5th cetury A.D.
|
you western, allways show facts what you want them to seem.
Attila didn't terrorize the Roman Empire. He taught the Gaul, the Germans, and all others how to re-gain "their lands"
so that's why all barbarian europeans joined him
Edited by YAFES
|
|
Guests
Guest
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Apr-2005 at 08:15 |
How about 300.000 Celtic civillians Caesar murdered???
Oh it's not terrorism, it's only the greatness of Rome
|
|
Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Apr-2005 at 10:54 |
Many Germans resisted Attila, they resented the idea of having to pay tribute to him.
Though strictly speaking, Atilla is kind of before the medieval peroid.
Edited by Cywr
|
Arrrgh!!"
|
|
Exarchus
General
Joined: 18-Jan-2005
Location: France
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 760
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 16-Apr-2005 at 12:58 |
I though Gauls fought against Attila at Chalons along with the Visigoths, Franks, Romans, Saxons, Burgundians, Alans ect......
|
Vae victis!
|
|