Islamophobia: the new antisemitism?

Stupid thing double posted. Would it be possible to delete the duplicate?

Apart from how the muslim faith is mentioned pretty much only in relation to terrorism and war here in the west, it also gets a really bad name from how some immigrants behave. And of course the negative examples are always remembered for longer than those people who don't stir up trouble.

The comparison to antisemitism is ridiculous though.

Maybe you have heard how Angela Merkel officially said that multiculturalism was an experiment that failed, and that pretty much fits the mindset of a lot of people in Germany, with the "multi" cultures mostly muslim ones.

But what could be done against it? A certain German politician suggested that the media should be politically controlled to present only good sides of Islam. As you might suspect she was muslim herself, of turkish descent I think, and this politically correct suggestion that just accidently would set the freedom of press back about 190 years did not earn her a lot of approval.
Its basically the fear of losing freedom that brings a lot of people to react hostile to it. And a while ago there was a great debate about the statements of a certain politician named Thilo Sarrazin, who was one of the first to openly critizised the muslim immigrants and eventually had to resign. Together with its aggressive image and the "creeping immigration and islamization" it makes quite a good concept for an enemy.

Unfortunately the more liberal cultures like for example the scandinavian ones appear to have coped even worse than the less open ones like Switzerland (at least in immigration policies in this case, just remember the minaret ban) so a lot of people feel that this seemingly aggressive culture will use any sign of weakness or cooperation for its own advantage.
This is also supported by the many statistics that are used as proof for how muslim immigrants abuse social welfare, which has already become a stereotype.

I started a thread about the situation in Scandinavia some time ago, you will find many reasons people have to react hostile to Islam there as well:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28432

You are absolutely right, indeed.
Some of them are rather conservative as well though, for example descendants from turkish immigrants who came in the years after the war. Since there were so many they didn't really get integrated at all but gathered in certain parts of major cities. Some of them are said to suffer an actual culture shock when visiting their "homeland", because they still have the impression it were the same as when they left it fourty or even sixty years ago.
And from them a large part of the lowest classes of society is formed. As I just recently read, most of their problems are indeed just typical lower-class problems. But with them the additional problem is that they have an own code of ethics and just perceive the host nation as alien and morally corrupt.
They dont identify at all with it, just take what one muslim prayer leader in Denmark said for example... he said that the muslim immigrants would be stupid to work, as they get enough money from social welfare, and should see that money as a tribute that has to be paid to them by the other people of the holy book.

The same applies to Germany, where there are schools with turkish lower class majorities. Just yesterday I saw a small advertisement for a documentary titled "three against Sarrazin", which basically showed the lives of the immigrants/descendants of immigrants, who had successfully integrated. I would love to send you a link, but its in German..
Anyway, despite this documentaries attempt to clearly show how Sarrazin was wrong with his negative statements about how many immigrants didn't wish to integrate it was full of side notes that just proof exactly what he said.

For example one of the three had come to get a good degree, saying that he broke contacts with all his turkish friends of elementary school to study with greater interest and become member of the German society. But listening to what he said: He said of himself than he had never been in trouble with the police. Unlike his former turkish friends, who all had been convicted for something, and of whom nobody had a job, all of them living of social welfare.

That is one side of the problem.
The other is something that is evident in what you wrote yourself, concerning the people from Somalia. Anyone would agree that they are more likely to slip into crime, but beware saying that in an official context in the western world! You would be tagged a xenophobe racist right away! You would have to explain just why someone who just happens to be Somalian would be more likely to be ethically corrupt!
And thats another part of the problem, an inconsistency that just lies deep in the western society. Trying to be as politically correct as possible you just have to take many conflicting positions at the same time. You must not openly criticize the muslim community, just look at what happened to Sarrazin again, who had to resign.
It gets more extreme the higher the nations claim on having a liberal view is.
You often read that in scandinavia the nationality or background of people committing crimes is kept secret or at least not spoken about by the media. The same applies for the rape rates and the far higher number of immigrant perpetrators in comparison to the native ones, which is a downright shame to anyone living in the western world.

So you are not really allowed to speak about the problem either, and thats especially evident in Germany as well, otherwise you will actually have people coming along and comparing it to antisemitism (which i should have made clear I disagree about by now), so that you are just shoved into the far right political corner where you lose any credibility.

This way the entire conflict is really a thorn in the flesh of western culture that must not be spoken about but can not be tolerated either, and this creates a lot of secret hate.

Now to me personally: I don't really agree with what Sarrazin said, he actually was very inaccurate with his theories and even started arguing in genetics which is rather messed up in a way...
And please understand I dont count you, Arab, into the group of people I am talking about. I just try to explain why the animosity has come to be so strong in the first place among many people.
I myself agree though that the current situation is not what it should be, and especially in Scandinavia there are a lot of things that have to be changed.

The anti-European aggressive struggle of Islamism and Islamist secret societies (modern terrorists are just part of the whole) in particular is well-known fact and historic truth. It is enough to open any historic text-book to read about countless military ivansions, conspiracies and pressure against Europe from the Islamist supremacists. The fact is clear. This struggle was never stopped and will never stop until complete victory of one and the total loss of the other. Today- 05 april 2011 the ex-communist leader of Poland- Wojciech Jaruzelski say something, that wasn`t secret about everybody upon time-

Edited by Kanas_Krumesis - 05-Apr-2011 at 13:51

For Some reason my relocate post function didn't do what was intended.....ntl following your initial op Eagle Cap replyed with this. My apologies for the dsyfunctional appearance.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 05-Apr-2011 at 18:26

Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis For Some reason my relocate post function didn't do what was intended.....ntl following your initial op Eagle Cap replyed with this. My apologies for the dsyfunctional appearance.   His original is below yours listed on the board. I will leave that for now.   =================================================   '' I think you need to bring up more evidence than a few blanket statements my friend. Also, Islam is a religion and it is made up of many racial groups so that point is mute. Look at the fate of the Palestinian Christians, the Coptic Christians, the Christians in Iraq and Christians in other Islamic countries. Since 9/11 anti- Muslim racism is becoming increasingly common in European and American society This has been debunked over and over again by Robert Spencer and Gellar. & others The American Islamic Forum for Democracy also debunks this and they are Muslims, who happen to oppose Sharia law - also Muslims against Sharia law. www.muslimsagainstsharialaw.com Most American are not anti Muslim but we are against any type of Islamic supremacism, which is quite evident in current events and history. Anyone religion is welcomed as long as they believe in equality and plurality but certain Islamic groups do not. I am glad such radicals are a minority of Muslims at least in the USA. I do know that parts of certain European cities have become no go zones for non-Muslims- Parts of London, Paris, Malmo,Sweden and now even Athens is getting that way. It is even dangerous for the police to enter these areas without backup. You are welcome to your opinion though but curious are you a liberal or a Muslim?''

Sharia law is not the problem. It is a system that has been proved to work a long time ago. Yet, it is only to be applied is Muslim countries and definitely not in Europe or America. Correct me if I am wrong but since when were there any attempt by muslims to 'seize control' of a western country?

I think It's clear that exploding bombs amongst civilians, worldwide, is a good way to breed distrust. Of course that's unfortunate for the innocent among the bomb exploders, and very unfortunate for the blown up. 

Originally posted by opuslola "Since 9/11 anti- Muslim racism is becoming increasingly common in European and American society This has been debunked over and over again by Robert Spencer and Gellar. & others The American Islamic Forum for Democracy also debunks this and they are Muslims, who happen to oppose Sharia law - also Muslims against Sharia law. www.muslimsagainstsharialaw.com Most American are not anti Muslim but we are against any type of Islamic supremacism, which is quite evident in current events and history. Anyone religion is welcomed as long as they believe in equality and plurality but certain Islamic groups do not. I am glad such radicals are a minority of Muslims at least in the USA. I do know that parts of certain European cities have become no go zones for non-Muslims- Parts of London, Paris, Malmo,Sweden and now even Athens is getting that way. It is even dangerous for the police to enter these areas without backup. You are welcome to your opinion though but curious are you a liberal or a Muslim?'' Edited by Centrix Vigilis - Yesterday at 20:26" I would consider your post above a bunch of "snot!" If you were to condider that if any American (North or South) ever took umbrage over the acts of the "Religious Police" of Arabia (I.E. Saudi Arabia) ever confiscated the "religious books" of "Christians" or "Jews" found during the Customs search of baggage coming into the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and then being burned as an outrage, then American Christians and Jews, would be planting bombs within and amongst all of the followers of Islam that now exist withing the USA, and Europe! So, just where are these "OUTRAGES?" It is so easy for me to now "rest my case!" For just what group can we pick from those called "Outrageous?" Christians and Jews can be immediately removed! So, just what group is guilty of "Crimes Against Humannity?" Yes, the above is a pure one or anther answer! Ron

Originally posted by Arab Originally posted by opuslola "Since 9/11 anti- Muslim racism is becoming increasingly common in European and American society This has been debunked over and over again by Robert Spencer and Gellar. & others The American Islamic Forum for Democracy also debunks this and they are Muslims, who happen to oppose Sharia law - also Muslims against Sharia law. www.muslimsagainstsharialaw.com Most American are not anti Muslim but we are against any type of Islamic supremacism, which is quite evident in current events and history. Anyone religion is welcomed as long as they believe in equality and plurality but certain Islamic groups do not. I am glad such radicals are a minority of Muslims at least in the USA. I do know that parts of certain European cities have become no go zones for non-Muslims- Parts of London, Paris, Malmo,Sweden and now even Athens is getting that way. It is even dangerous for the police to enter these areas without backup. You are welcome to your opinion though but curious are you a liberal or a Muslim?'' Edited by Centrix Vigilis - Yesterday at 20:26" I would consider your post above a bunch of "snot!" If you were to condider that if any American (North or South) ever took umbrage over the acts of the "Religious Police" of Arabia (I.E. Saudi Arabia) ever confiscated the "religious books" of "Christians" or "Jews" found during the Customs search of baggage coming into the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and then being burned as an outrage, then American Christians and Jews, would be planting bombs within and amongst all of the followers of Islam that now exist withing the USA, and Europe! So, just where are these "OUTRAGES?" It is so easy for me to now "rest my case!" For just what group can we pick from those called "Outrageous?" Christians and Jews can be immediately removed! So, just what group is guilty of "Crimes Against Humannity?" Yes, the above is a pure one or anther answer! Ron   Saudi Arabia is a country with a state religion. The U.S. is not. It was founded on the ideals of religious freedom and tolerance. The old "Saudi Arabia don't allow churches in their country so why should we allow mosques" argument is not a good one.

The Christians & Jews were kicked out of the land of the Prophet long ago but I agree based on our founding principles they are welcome here. I know some are radicalized and preach the replacement of our constitution with Sharia Law. One American reporter, who speaks fluent Arabic, witnessed this in several Mosques. How many support this - I don't know but hopefully most do not. It is these very founding principles that make us great and we are not Saudi Arabia so yes I have no problems with the building of Mosques in the USA.

Edited by eaglecap - 06-Apr-2011 at 14:52

I don't know what you guys think, this is a quite dead end topic. Let's talk about something like the fear that the European race is going to be extinct in the next few decades due to immigration. Is that a legitimate fear or is just some extremist right fear mongering? Frankly I see that the logistics are there since Europeans rarely have more than two children whilst African/Asian/Arabs usually have at least 4 or more. Tell me what you think