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The Reason for Arab Mistrust towards the West
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Pretorian
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Posts: 197 		  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Reason for Arab Mistrust towards the West
    Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 16:26
T.E. Lawrence enters Damascus, October 1918
 
Has anyone considered the actions of the European powers in the early 20th century as the cause of the crisis in the Middle East?
 
The British promised the Arabs independence if they helped to fight the Ottomans. In the 1918 Declaration to the Seven, the British agreed that Arabs should govern the lands that they had liberated from the Ottomans, and that the government “would be based principally on consent of those governed.” Moreover, American president Woodrow Wilson in a speech stated that after the war the Turks will have sovereignty but that the “other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development.”  
 
But then we have the Sykes-Picot agreement, which divided most of the Middle East between Britain, France and Russia, creating artificial borders and countries. And to top it off there’s the Balfour Declaration. These plans were not revealed to the Arabs.
 
My question is, did you ever consider the effects these conflicting promises had on Western-Arab relations? Wouldn't you agree that these events set the stage for almost all conflicts in the Middle East today? I wonder if any of you ever knew that Osama bin Laden has specifically blamed the Sykes-Picot Agreement for breaking “the Islamic world into fragments”?


Edited by Arab - 28-Mar-2011 at 16:29
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 16:38
T.E. Lawrence enters Damascus, October 1918
 
Has anyone considered the actions of the European powers in the early 20th century as the cause of the crisis in the Middle East?
 
Yes.
 
The British promised the Arabs independence if they helped to fight the Ottomans. In the 1918 Declaration to the Seven, the British agreed that Arabs should govern the lands that they had liberated from the Ottomans, and that the government “would be based principally on consent of those governed.” Moreover, American president Woodrow Wilson in a speech stated that after the war the Turks will have sovereignty but that the “other nationalities which are now under Turkish rule should be assured an undoubted security of life and an absolutely unmolested opportunity of autonomous development.”  
 
 
This partially occurred but not with the Wilsonian intent postulated.
 
But then we have the Sykes-Picot agreement, which divided most of the Middle East between Britain, France and Russia, creating artificial borders and countries. And to top it off there’s the Balfour Declaration. These plans were not revealed to the Arabs.
 
And for obvious reasons if you were the negotiatiers.
 
My question is, did you ever consider the effects these conflicting promises had on Western-Arab relations? Wouldn't you agree that these events set the stage for almost all conflicts in the Middle East today? 
 
 
Yup.
 
I wonder if any of you ever knew that Osama bin Laden has specifically blamed the Sykes-Picot Agreement for breaking “the Islamic world into fragments”?
 
Yes but what he and others have failed to accept is the historical record and causes that has reulted in that; and subsequent historical developements. And rather then dealing with it in a fashion that would promulgate their cause; has done exactly the opposite.. earning the condemnation they now see.
 
Thanks


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 28-Mar-2011 at 16:39
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 197 		  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 16:54
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

Yes but what he and others have failed to accept is the historical record and causes that has reulted in that; and subsequent historical developements. And rather then dealing with it in a fashion that would promulgate their cause; has done exactly the opposite.. earning the condemnation they now see.
 
I am in no way justifying the actions of terrorists, I simply found it a little chilling... Let me give you an example of what I mean.
 
Saddam Hussein's 1990 invasion of Kuwait, as monstrous as it was, had historical grounds. Kuwait was severed from Iraq in 1921 and given boundaries with no basis in history. Kuwait became a symbol of humiliation for Iraq at the hands of the British. As for why they did this, it was to weaken Arab nationalism. Imagine if Kuwait and Iraq were one country today, with their combined oil reserves.
 
My point overall is that these events which have influenced Middle Eastern history are not given much consideration.
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 17:03
Your point-example is well taken...I agree and understand that in your final observation you are exactly correct.
 
To believe other would be simply an attempt to revise the record and or ignore cause and effect...and I will do neither.
 
Thanks
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 197 		  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 17:18
Well thank you for your valuable insight, I guess. Congratulations on 1000 posts btw! Clap
 
Would anyone else like to express their opinion about this subject?
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Posts: 1962 		  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 17:24
Originally posted by Arab

 I wonder if any of you ever knew that Osama bin Laden has specifically blamed the Sykes-Picot Agreement for breaking “the Islamic world into fragments”?
I did not.  This statement though, really demonstrates the belief among some arbs that arab nations and the "Islamic world" are the same concept. As a side note, the boundaries drawn by the Europeans were probably just as artificial as the boundaries imposed by the Islamic Ottomans.
 
Originally posted by Arab

Well thank you for your valuable insight, I guess. Congratulations on 1000 posts btw! Clap
 
Would anyone else like to express their opinion about this subject?
There is also truth to the Iraqi claims that the Kuwaitis were systematically "side drilling" and therefore stealing Iraqi oil.  


Edited by Cryptic - 28-Mar-2011 at 17:47
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Posts: 197 		  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 17:47
Indeed, one must consider this when trying to understand the complex situation in the region. Prior to this, the US had suggested that Iraq invade Iran and annex Khuzestan. This was just a way for the US to counter the radicalism of the Iranian regime. Iraq was armed by US and a million people died in the ensuing war. Iraq was left in ruins and Kuwait took advantage of this by stealing Iraqi oil.  
 
And then there's the 2003 invasion. I doubt Iraq posed any threat to the world in 2003, when it was militarily weaker than it was in 1990 war, during which it was defeated in a matter of hours. No WMDs found, no link between Saddam and Al-Qaeda, but hundreds of thousands of lives lost.
 
Saddam is made out to be a cruel and ruthless monster, which for the most part he is, but you must remember that just a few years ago this man was being supported by the US. Very similar situation with Al-Qaeda.
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Posts: 197 		  Quote Arab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 17:54
Originally posted by Cryptic

I did not.  This statement though, really demonstrates the belief among some arbs that arab nations and the "Islamic world" are the same concept. As a side note, the boundaries drawn by the Europeans were probably just as artificial as the boundaries imposed by the Islamic Ottomans.
 
 
But you must realize that this was one of the reasons the Arabs wanted independence from the Ottomans; they wanted to govern themselves. The Arab revolt leaders wanted to create a single Arab state from Damascus in Syria to Sana'a in Yemen.
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Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 17:57
It hasn't had much attention in the west but growing up as an Arab I was well-versed with this topic. Hollywood did make a movie about Lawrence of Arabia but it was presented in a way that endorsed his campaign to divide the Arabs under the pretext of freeing them from the Ottomans. I can't imagine what the Arab world would have been like if it stood united as one empire and I am sure that it would have been much better.
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Posts: 487 		  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2011 at 15:48
With some brief exceptions. Arabs have been satellite to other larger states for most of their history. Starting with Bazyntine and Sassanids then Turks and finally Europeans and Westernes. The larger states bought and appointed warlords and rulers to server their own cause and the actual Arab people ended up hating  the forigners. This has worked for a couple reasons partly cultural and partly becaus of low historical population in most Arab areas
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Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2011 at 16:30
I never saw it that way. Though that was not the case in Morocco. Morocco has been independent for quite a long time since it was never invaded by the Ottomans. That is until the Spanish and French occupations. There were also some intermittent Portuguese attacks on some cities but those didn't last too long.
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Posts: 487 		  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2011 at 13:59
today Morroce shares culture and language with Arab counties, but I am not sure if Morroce can be classified as part the core historical Arab area
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Posts: 869 		  Quote Baal Melqart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Mar-2011 at 17:44
I would agree that countries like Morocco, Algeria and tunisia don't always consider themselves very Arabic. I myself am Moroccan and the way I see it, we are just Amazigh who have accepted an Arabic culture. But I am sure that in the eyes of world we are still considered to be Arabs.
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