Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedIndo aryans of south asia a dying people?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
PakistaniShield View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 26-Dec-2008
Location: North America
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 240
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indo aryans of south asia a dying people?
    Posted: 20-Jan-2013 at 17:27
Dardic languages are not derived from Iranic languages, which is a separate branch in the Indo-Iranic family.

Tamil is not Sanskrit based. It has borrowed from that language, but not related to it at all.

India is about 70% Indo-Aryan speaking and Pakistan is roughly around the same. Western Pakistan is mostly Iranic.
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 698
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2013 at 10:54
Languages and genetics are two totally different things, for example a guy in Maharastra or central india might speak a indo aryan language yet genetically he will be much closer to a Tamil than to lets say a Kashmiri

Just because 70% of India speaks indo aryan languages, doesn't mean they are related to the original indo aryans
Back to Top
PakistaniShield View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 26-Dec-2008
Location: North America
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 240
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2013 at 15:45
Originally posted by balochii

Languages and genetics are two totally different things, for example a guy in Maharastra or central india might speak a indo aryan language yet genetically he will be much closer to a Tamil than to lets say a Kashmiri

Just because 70% of India speaks indo aryan languages, doesn't mean they are related to the original indo aryans


That's what I stated. India is 70% Indo-Aryan linguistically. genetically I can't state how many are Indo-Aryan. People of Finland speak a non-Indo-European language but genetics show they are overall Scandinavian and also have the highest ratio of blondes than any ethnic group in the world. 

Language does not give us genetic answers but it does give us a clue about the history of that ethnic group(s).
Back to Top
Kamal View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 05-Feb-2013
Location: India
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Feb-2013 at 03:58
Big smileClapTongue
Kamzl kashmiri
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2013 at 01:04
They are NOT White or even Indo-Aryan, blue eyes and blond hair is extremely rare even for Kalash or North Pakistan, majority have dark hair and eyes, this is a very complex subject, Indians actually have the highest European blood outside of countries considered culturally white (upper caste Hindus and Sikhs not Muslims because Islam was brought to the lower caste, some of these castes are said to be of pure European origin), the Pakistan region was all Buddhist, Hindu, or Sikh and fled to modern day India far before the partition (no records or borders), the ones with land fled after or during the partition because they were resisting, Pakistanis today are mainly followers of a rebel leader from central India and went to the Pakistan region for land and money, only people in that region today that did not move are the Kalash more financial reasons, there’s MANY tribes like these in Nepal and India with larger numbers than Kalash, but go unnoticed because of their large population of their countries. Follow the caste not the region, the Sikh massacre made Hindus and Sikhs in Kashmir and neighboring states to come a little south to Punjab or Jammu, they used to be a majority (little more south), north is successful and has a lot of immigrants and the partition switching, Im American, and almost every time Alexander the Great story is brought up, he has nothing to do with the Kalash and Alexander wasn’t even Greek, that's proof people have no Idea what their talking about, the Kalash are of Mongolian blood, they resemble ethnic Hispanic (who were Mongolian), but Hispanics are WAY lighter, the only people whose looks are being maintained are people practicing the caste system, if you go up to a Hindu they can automatically tell you what the person's caste is based on looks, and plus if you put all upper caste Hindus and Sikh together or take all the natives of one north Indian state that would be more than ALL of any south or central Asian country, so no Indo-Aryan are not disappearing

Dont be confused blonde hair has nothing to do with genes, in Asia it is mainly brought out by temperature and malnourishment, if you look at Asian decent America, NONE will have light hair, and that has nothing to do with Indo-Aryan genes

This is Anatomy 101, genes dont disappear and remain in the blood and passed on forever, unless their totally different people and think their something else, the history of Pakistan region applies to the natives not majority that live there, and the only natives are Kalash not the rest so you may think its disappearing, the Kalash (you could say kinda practice a caste system) and don't mix, that's why it seems like the Kalash are the only Indo-Aryan for Pakistanis, because the rest are once again of central India descent and mix because they don't believe in a caste system and mix

Also Caucasian and White are two different topics, ethnic Caucasians and Aryan were dark featured and said to be from the middle east, the words Caucasian and Aryan were adopted by Celtic blooded Whites

the Dravidian are the ones disappearing, did you know Indian subcontinent had a slave trade, majority of the Dravidian were put in the slave trade to  Middle East and West Indies, but they never looked like stereotypical Africans, that's why Pakistan and India is Caucasian today, because Caucasian boned people are mainly left, but the countries still has a mix of races (every country does though) 

I also dont understand why Mughul is brought up, he was Mongolian and he later accepted Turkish culture, ALL the clans of the Mughul empire were Mongols not Turks, one additional clan was added later on (once they got to Turkey) but that clan never step foot on Asia

Clearly, you have no idea or proof and claim of your opinions, i studied Anthropology for 8 years and traveled the globe.


Edited by hi_im_blond - 15-Mar-2013 at 11:19
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Online
Posts: 14852
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2013 at 01:25
Interesting story you have Blondy!Welcome aboard!SmileI hope you know there is dot(.) sign in sentence.Use
it in your new posts and make them more readable for readers!
Back to Top
TITAN_ View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jun-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 480
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2013 at 03:34
As fas as I know, only in North West India you can find a significant percentage of people who have European characteristics like relatively white skin.
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν
Een aristevin
“Ever to Excel“
From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC).
Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others.
Back to Top
PakistaniShield View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 26-Dec-2008
Location: North America
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 240
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2013 at 14:09
Originally posted by hi_im_blond

They are NOT White or even Indo-Aryan, blue eyes and blond hair is extremely rare even for Kalash or North Pakistan, majority have dark hair and eyes, this is a very complex subject, Indians actually have the highest European blood outside of countries considered culturally white.


Wrong the whitest populations outside of Europe are in Pakistan's Kashmir province and Northern Areas in Tajikistan which i read has a ratio of up to 10% blondes.

There was no "partition" since India was created on August 15th 1947. Only some people migrated from Pakistan to India and some from India to Pakistan. Besides most Indians are not of indo-Aryan descent, they just speak Indo-Aryan languages.


Edited by PakistaniShield - 14-Mar-2013 at 14:10
Back to Top
PakistaniShield View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 26-Dec-2008
Location: North America
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 240
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Mar-2013 at 14:11
Originally posted by TITAN_

As fas as I know, only in North West India you can find a significant percentage of people who have European characteristics like relatively white skin.


Those white minorities look like Mediterranean peoples.
Back to Top
TITAN_ View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jun-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 480
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 05:11
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by TITAN_

As fas as I know, only in North West India you can find a significant percentage of people who have European characteristics like relatively white skin.


Those white minorities look like Mediterranean peoples.

Of course, I never claimed they look like Scandinavians.
αἰὲν ἀριστεύειν
Een aristevin
“Ever to Excel“
From Homer's Iliad (8th century BC).
Motto of the University of St Andrews (founded 1410), the Edinburgh Academy (founded 1824) and others.
Back to Top
PakistaniShield View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 26-Dec-2008
Location: North America
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 240
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Mar-2013 at 12:59
^ I was just specifying your description of them.  
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 698
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2013 at 20:41
Originally posted by hi_im_blond

They are NOT White or even Indo-Aryan, blue eyes and blond hair is extremely rare even for Kalash or North Pakistan, majority have dark hair and eyes, this is a very complex subject, Indians actually have the highest European blood outside of countries considered culturally white (upper caste Hindus and Sikhs not Muslims because Islam was brought to the lower caste, some of these castes are said to be of pure European origin), the Pakistan region was all Buddhist, Hindu, or Sikh and fled to modern day India far before the partition (no records or borders), the ones with land fled after or during the partition because they were resisting, Pakistanis today are mainly followers of a rebel leader from central India and went to the Pakistan region for land and money, only people in that region today that did not move are the Kalash more financial reasons, there’s MANY tribes like these in Nepal and India with larger numbers than Kalash, but go unnoticed because of their large population of their countries. Follow the caste not the region, the Sikh massacre made Hindus and Sikhs in Kashmir and neighboring states to come a little south to Punjab or Jammu, they used to be a majority (little more south), north is successful and has a lot of immigrants and the partition switching, Im American, and almost every time Alexander the Great story is brought up, he has nothing to do with the Kalash and Alexander wasn’t even Greek, that's proof people have no Idea what their talking about, the Kalash are of Mongolian blood, they resemble ethnic Hispanic (who were Mongolian), but Hispanics are WAY lighter, the only people whose looks are being maintained are people practicing the caste system, if you go up to a Hindu they can automatically tell you what the person's caste is based on looks, and plus if you put all upper caste Hindus and Sikh together or take all the natives of one north Indian state that would be more than ALL of any south or central Asian country, so no Indo-Aryan are not disappearing

Dont be confused blonde hair has nothing to do with genes, in Asia it is mainly brought out by temperature and malnourishment, if you look at Asian decent America, NONE will have light hair, and that has nothing to do with Indo-Aryan genes

This is Anatomy 101, genes dont disappear and remain in the blood and passed on forever, unless their totally different people and think their something else, the history of Pakistan region applies to the natives not majority that live there, and the only natives are Kalash not the rest so you may think its disappearing, the Kalash (you could say kinda practice a caste system) and don't mix, that's why it seems like the Kalash are the only Indo-Aryan for Pakistanis, because the rest are once again of central India descent and mix because they don't believe in a caste system and mix

Also Caucasian and White are two different topics, ethnic Caucasians and Aryan were dark featured and said to be from the middle east, the words Caucasian and Aryan were adopted by Celtic blooded Whites

the Dravidian are the ones disappearing, did you know Indian subcontinent had a slave trade, majority of the Dravidian were put in the slave trade to  Middle East and West Indies, but they never looked like stereotypical Africans, that's why Pakistan and India is Caucasian today, because Caucasian boned people are mainly left, but the countries still has a mix of races (every country does though) 

I also dont understand why Mughul is brought up, he was Mongolian and he later accepted Turkish culture, ALL the clans of the Mughul empire were Mongols not Turks, one additional clan was added later on (once they got to Turkey) but that clan never step foot on Asia

Clearly, you have no idea or proof and claim of your opinions, i studied Anthropology for 8 years and traveled the globe.


total bs, why dont indians look anything like european than? even the so called high caste would at best look like average pakistanis. Pakistanis overall have higher west asian and west eurasian than indians, this is proven by genetics and among pakistanis it is the northern and pashtun people who have the most west asian and west eurasian genetics. I dont why indian nationalists always want muslims to be related to low caste, this is not true at all
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 698
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2013 at 20:43
Originally posted by TITAN_

As fas as I know, only in North West India you can find a significant percentage of people who have European characteristics like relatively white skin.


even in NW india majority of people dont have fairskin, only about 20% would probably have it. There are also no other european features in Indians

It is really once you hit Kashmir and northern Pakistan where you start seeing those features
Back to Top
balochii View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 23-May-2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 698
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2013 at 20:57
I saw one interesting pic comparing pakistani and Indian politicians, look at the difference, the one on the left is Indian and right is pakistani.  Pakistanis even eastern and southern ones are definatly more west asian/west eurasian than indians, pakistan is west of india to begin with, so it's common sense. Just because the two countries were one before doesn't mean they are exactly the same people






Edited by balochii - 17-Mar-2013 at 20:59
Back to Top
PakistaniShield View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 26-Dec-2008
Location: North America
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 240
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2013 at 13:54
Originally posted by balochii

Just because the two countries were one before doesn't mean they are exactly the same people


They weren't the same 'country.' They were the same colony under the British empire which lasted less than a hundred years, so in that sense they were the 'same country' but before and after that the regions borders kept shifting aorund. Ukraine and Uzbekistan were the same country as the Soviet Union, nobody dares to think Ukrainians and Uzbeks are 'the same.'


Back to Top
chaitanya View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 11-Apr-2013
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2013 at 14:24
While this being agreed in modern day india. duringthe later vedic period there was migration from vedic land into main land india. many south indian brahmins and some other casts consider that their ancestors migrated from vedic land(east afghanistan, most of current pakistan and northindia) to spread vedic teaching. however now, most of them are heavily mixed. 


Back to Top
SuryaVajra View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 05-Jul-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 124
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 00:22
I am sorry to say this. But this topic is disgusting .Its intention smells stale if indeed by "Indo Aryans" you refer to the fair skinned people(as though such a demograpic bloc can be genetically localized)

Its also hilarious to see the author pasting clear pictures of Indian albinism to show " dying aryans".

There is an albino living close to my house. He is not white, nor is he brown. He is just an albino whose parents are Indian.


Edited by SuryaVajra - 04-Jun-2013 at 00:22
Back to Top
PakistaniShield View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 26-Dec-2008
Location: North America
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 240
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2013 at 17:37
The people in the pics are not indians nor are they albino. You clearly don't understand the whole meaning of indo-aryans
Back to Top
SuryaVajra View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 05-Jul-2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 124
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 01:43
Originally posted by PakistaniShield

The people in the pics are not indians nor are they albino. You clearly don't understand the whole meaning of indo-aryans


From what you have so far said, it is clear that it is you who is devoid of any knowledge of who the Vedic people were.

The solution?----stop looking for albinos and start reading original texts , the Vedas .See what the Vedic people say about themselvs.

 Here's a starter. There were four major tribes. Anu, Druhyu, Turvasa, Puru. The Purus composed the Vedas and are the ancestors of Indians and ,oh well, Pakistanis.

Here is the royal family tree of the Vedic Aryan tribe of Puru-Bharata (ancestors of Indians) reconstructed from the rig Veda. This is called the Lunar dynasty. 

The Druhyu may have have been ancestors of European Celts (Druids) and the Rig Veda does say they left "Via the northern route" after loosing the Dasarajna war .

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/4838/lunardynasty.jpg From "Rig Veda, a Historical analysis" by Srikant Talageri.
The predominant dynasty in the Rigveda is the dynasty of DevavAta, one of the descendants of the ancient king Bharata.

The kings in this dynasty, as we have already seen, are:

DevavAta
SRnjaya
VadhryaSva
DivodAsa
Pratardana
Pijavana
DevaSravas
SudAs
Sahadeva
Somaka

These kings are Bharatas, but they are also PUrus: according to the PurANas, the Bharatas are a branch of the PUrus; and this is confirmed in the Rigveda, where both DivodAsa (I.130.7) and SudAs (I.63.7) are called PUrus, and where the Bharata composer Parucchepa DaivodAsI repeatedly speaks as a PUru (I.129.5; 131.4).

Some other names of kings in the Rigveda who appear in the Puranic lists as PUru kings (some belonging to the Bharata dynasty of DevavAta, and some not) are:

AjamILha (IV.44.6).
Dhvasra/Dhvasanti and PuruSanti (I.112.23; IX.58.3).
          (SuSanti and PurujAti of the Puranic lists.)
Mudgala (X.102.2, 5, 6, 9).
RkSa (VIII.68.15, 16; 74.4, 13). 
Srutarvan (VIII.74.4, 13; X.49.5). 
Vidathin (IV.16.13; V.29.11). 
Santanu (X.98.1, 3, 7).
KuSika (III.26.1).

read this for more..

http://voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/ch5.htm


Also Pakishield....DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL AUTHORS OF THE RIG VEDA?

Here is a sample information.

http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/rig/img24.jpg

Please realize how much knowledge you are missing when you run after albinos.



Edited by SuryaVajra - 05-Jun-2013 at 11:53
Back to Top
red clay View Drop Down
Administrator
Administrator
Avatar
Tomato Master Emeritus

Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10111
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2013 at 09:42
SuryaVajra, you were the one who brought up "Albinos", there was no mention of Albinism until your post.
 
Mutual respect is what we try to run on here. Surya, I'm giving you an informal warning to keep it within the CoC.
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.117 seconds.