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The Lost World of Old Europe

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  Quote plamenski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Lost World of Old Europe
    Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 14:49

The oldest European civilisation was born in today's Bulgaria and Romania, 2000 years before the Greek civilisation.

In 1972, a day laborer stumbled upon a magnificent burial ground in what is now Bulgaria. Carbon testing dated the cemetery at 4500 BC, before the introduction of writing into what is now Eastern Europe. The deceased were buried with their heads all pointing north, although some of the graves held just cenotaphs of bones and other plots were empty of any remains at all.

http://www.artnet.com/magazineus/features/finch/the-lost-world-of-old-europe1-20-10.asp


Time to rewrite history, methinks! Smile


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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 15:02
Excellent film!?!Those metal figurines can compete today on every contemporary art contests!
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 15:15
I would consider the above, just another example of false 14C dating!

Enough said!
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  Quote plamenski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 16:22
Originally posted by opuslola

I would consider the above, just another example of false 14C dating!


Before making such quick and false accusations you should at least make a suggestion which culture these artifacts belonged to then, if you don't consider them so old.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Feb-2011 at 16:40
Maybe all those artifacts are just "Made in China"(PRC)?WinkPlamenski everything is under control!?!This is
normal allergic reaction of somebodies on ancient artifacts!?! 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2011 at 13:24
As a follow up to Med's ...........rather accurate summation of Opus's reaction, he's like that, all you have to do is mention C14 and he does really funny things.Big smile
 
Plamenski, he's going to be negative no matter what.  I don't now have the time to view the vid. but I will later and get back. 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2011 at 15:36
Originally posted by opuslola

I would consider the above, just another example of false 14C dating!

Enough said!
Why cant you tell us why exaclty you do not trust Carbon 14 dates?  It would make your postion alot easier to understand.
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2011 at 18:46
"Before making such quick and false accusations you should at least make a suggestion which culture these artifacts belonged to then, if you don't consider them so old."

"Why cant you tell us why exaclty you do not trust Carbon 14 dates? It would make your postion alot easier to understand."

I would like for someone of you to post other information concerning the finds mentioned in the above film?

If there exists only "one site" and if there exits at no other time, any similar art, or ceramics, then this site could just be a one-time tribe, with as it seems, that had very good ability in art and ceramics, that either died out from disease, or by warfare, etc.!

Just where are the prototypes for this type of culture? It did not suddenly just appear out of thin air?

When one of you can show me sites with more information, the dig reports, other scholars comments, etc., then I will again respond!


http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote plamenski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2011 at 19:22
Again you make some false presumption, it's not just one site and not just one tribe. But here's more info:

http://www.ashmolean.org/assets/docs/Exhibitions/AshmoleanPressKit-LostWorld.pdf
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Feb-2011 at 19:41
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-169923796.html

And interestingly also, is the fact that a final report may not exist today!

But, of particular interest to me is the existance of this site on the edge of the Black Sea! It might even help date the filling of this sea?

Oh! Thanks for the above information!

Regards,

Ron

Edited by opuslola - 23-Feb-2011 at 20:00
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2011 at 08:49
Ron, you've been hanging around Drgodzilla too much.
 
This isn't about one site or "tribe"  The Cucutani civilization was one of the great Neolithic cultures.
Also one of my favs as far as ceramics go.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2011 at 08:57
Opuslola wrote-
 
When one of you can show me sites with more information, the dig reports, other scholars comments, etc., then I will again respond!
 
So now your an expert?  I can hardly wait!!  I'm tempted to go find dig reports myself.Big smile
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2011 at 11:48
Originally posted by opuslola

If there exists only "one site" and if there exits at no other time, any similar art, or ceramics, then this site could just be a one-time tribe, with as it seems, that had very good ability in art and ceramics, that either died out from disease, or by warfare, etc.!

Just where are the prototypes for this type of culture? It did not suddenly just appear out of thin air?

When one of you can show me sites with more information, the dig reports, other scholars comments, etc., then I will again respond!




There are ~3000 sites only in the Cucuteni culture, many of them in the form of fortified towns 7-5,000 years old and having up to 15,000 inhabitants (larger and older than the Summerian city-states).

The peoples who created these cultures has came from Anatolia and Levant, where the human civilizations first appeared. Agriculture and civlization was introduced in Europe by these ME Neolithic migrants:

Cucuteni culture

Neolithic Europe






Edited by Menumorut - 25-Feb-2011 at 12:02

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2011 at 15:59
Menumorut, you do have a habit of showing up at the right time.Wink
 
Could you give us a little more, mainly on the dating.
 
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2011 at 16:04
I was here,during my summer holiday 2007 on Black Sea.We have spent one Saturday there!According  the  dating  everything  seemed  as people have left the table few minutes before.Artifacts are so well preserved and still functional?Habitats were left in rush those days?Why?Do you have more info about that
Plamenski?


Edited by medenaywe - 25-Feb-2011 at 16:15
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Feb-2011 at 17:18
Originally posted by red clay

Menumorut, you do have a habit of showing up at the right time.Wink

Could you give us a little more, mainly on the dating.



These are some marks for the Neolithic Balkans:

-Lepenski Vir site in Serbia, inhabited since 7000 BCE with interesting sculptures from that period.




-Sesklo culture, Greece, oldest discoveries from 6850 BCE. In the 6th millennium BCE, the first houses with two levels are found and there is also a clear intentional urbanism.




Starčevo-Kőrös-Criş culture, Serbia, Romania and Hungary, between c. 6200 and 5200 BCE.



Vinča culture, Serbia and Romania mainly, 5500–4500 BCE, known for the oldest European script, the Vinča signs. The Tărtăria tablets, dated 5300 are the most important discovery.




-Hamangia Culture, Dobruja, Romania, began around 5250/5200 BC and lasted until around 4550/4500 BCE. Known for the famous statue “The Thinker”.




-The Varna Necropolis, Bulgaria, dated to 4700-4200 BCE, where one of the oldest and richest Neolithic gold treasures was found.




Gumelnita culture
Gumelniţa A1 4700-4350
Gumelniţa A2 4500-3950


Cucuteni-Trypillian culture developed in Eastern Romania, Republic of Moldavia and Ukraine, is periodized like this:
Precucuteni I-III - 5100-4600 BCE
Cucuteni A1-A4 4600-4050
Cucuteni A/B 4100-3800
Cucuteni B 3800-3500





Edited by Menumorut - 25-Feb-2011 at 17:30

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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2011 at 11:11
I can't help but notice the similarity of the Hamangia culture sculpture to the Cycladic culture.

Edited by red clay - 26-Feb-2011 at 11:13
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2011 at 17:08
The world's oldest wheeled vehicles and wheels (in context of wheeled transport) appear in 4th millenium BC  Europe  :  
 
 
 
 

 

Wheeled item from the Cucuteni-Tripolye culture (Romania-Ukraine ).Tripolye phase B2 circa 3750 BC.
 
 
 
 
Model of a 4-wheeled wagon, early Classic Baden culture, ca 3300 BC
 
Read more in this thread :
 
 
 
 
Star


Edited by Sander - 26-Feb-2011 at 21:25
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  Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2011 at 21:11
Sander, I would propose that if children were presented with such toys, as they are reported to have been presented with even in the Americas, then it is no big step for the usage of either the child's toy or either the child's toy became one used by adults!

What is obvious today, was just as obvious in the distant past!
The truth is, that children did not design these"toys"for themselves!   It must have been adults that passsed on to their children, their live-styles!
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2011 at 22:02
Ummm, I don't think anyone's disputing that,  What's your pernt?  
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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