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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ancient Jews were Kurds
    Posted: 02-Apr-2011 at 16:10
Originally posted by Baal Melqart

Everyone is mixed I agree, but Arabs are surely Semites because they have been in the Arabian Peninsula for millenia, unlike Jews. Don't try and turn the table here, Arabs are Semites in every way possible. Even before the Islamic Conquest, nations like Syrians, Lebanese and Iraqi had been Semites for over millenia and I don't need to prove that because it is obvious. Even according to Dodecad, they are a lot purer than Jews.


First of all, the term Semite is either used for language or biblical reference, there are no historical facts of a person named Shem/Sam for us to sit there and say "Hey, this person comes from Shem", get it? Since that's the case, let's stick to facts.

If we throw the religious term out of the window since it has no facts, we will have to look back at the language term, as of today the Jews are Semites because their main language is Hebrew, even those European Jews who speak Jewish Indo-European languages like Yiddish or Ladino have their base language as Hebrew, they have this tradition because they have Jewish ancestors from the middle east that passed these traditions, I actually have a very good example of this, there has been Assyrians from the 1700's that migrated from the Assyrian homeland to Russia/Ukraine, their offspring today speaks Russian and only a very small percentage of them speaks Assyrian, but their base language and traditions are Assyrian, they mixed a little with other Russians but they still identify as Assyrian, to me they're Assyrian, not Russian, it's the same thing with the Jews in Europe but they've been there longer.

Also why shouldn't I turn this against Arabs? Some Arabs are very mixed, why should we call them "Semites" but not call the Jews that? Who are you to determine what percentages you can start calling yourself a Semite? Semite in itself is a bogus term, and since West Asian and Southwest Asian are the only middle eastern portions (Semites and other non-Semites), check out how mixed some Arab groups can be:

Syrians
West Asian - 37.2%
Southwest Asian - 33.1%
Other - 29.7%

Jordanians
West Asian - 31.3%
Southwest Asian - 33.9%
Other - 34.8%

Egyptians
West Asian - 19.1%
Southwest Asian - 38.9%
Other - 42%

That's not to mention that the vast majority of the West Asian genes are not actual Semitic speakers, meaning the so called Semitic mix in these Arab groups is easily less than 50%.

Sure, Jews are accepting converts NOW. They did not during the kingdom of Yishrael. Nor did they afterwards. There were though occasions in which mass conversions happened (ie: Khazars) which I doubt was merely political in nature.


If they accept less converts and Muslims accept a lot of converts shouldn't that make the Arabs more mixed? In some cases, certain Arab groups are more mixed than Jews in general, the less mixed Arabs I can think of are Saudis (Depending from which region you test) and the Bedouins, and even they're not 100% pure since they have some African and South Asian genes.

You don't seem to have commented on whether they could identify a gene belonging to the Israelites. I'm assuming that's because they can't which is why all you can possibly prove is that Jews have 10% 'Middle-Eastern' blood which is like saying that they have a 99.99% chance of having Arab blood instead of actual Jewish blood. Odds are looking bleak for you I'm afraid.


Didn't you not see the Y-DNA frequency I showed you from the Jewish ancestry project at Family Tree DNA? The vast majority of Jews have middle eastern lineages such as J1, J2, E1b1b1, G, etc, and not just any other lineages, but all the J1 carriers carry the so called Semitic marker (J1c3d) which is also carried by a lot of Arabs, this lineage does not exist in Europeans unless they have middle eastern origins:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/JewishDNAProject/default.aspx?section=yresults

Also for the record, even the Arabs of the Arabian Peninsula don't come from Arabia originally, since the majority carry haplogroup J1c3d, this lineage is the son of J1c3 which is the son of J1c which is the son of J1*, haplogroup J1 originated between the mountains of the Zagros and Tarsus around Eastern Anatolia (Southeast Turkey), during he Neolithic times herders used to wander in those lands and some of them migrated south toward Arabia, their first major pit-stop was actually the Levant where they possibly fused with some males that carried haplogroup E1b1b1c1 which originated around the Sinai area (E1b1b1 which is the parent of E1b1b1c1 originated in Eastern Africa and some of the offspring migrated to the middle east), this fusion of the J1c3d and the E1b1b1c1 males in the Levant was the creation of the Proto-Semitic language, some of them migrated further south to Arabia (Where the Arabs come from), some of them migrated to Eastern Africa where some of these languages are spoken today in the form of Amharic, Tigrigna, etc, some migrated to Mesopotamia (Akkadians), while the majority stayed in the homeland in the Levant where languages such as Amorite, Aramaic, Hebrew, Phoenician, etc, and this is actually backed up by a real scientific study of the J1 marker:

The emergence of Y-chromosome haplogroup J1e among Arabic-speaking populations.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19826455

That's hardcore scientific proof to you that Arabs are not originally from Arabia as you think, but rather from the mountains of the Zagros, that's where the majority of their paternal ancestors are from if we go back thousands of years ago.

Also, you mentioned earlier that there were a lot of Semites in the Sephardim group. That is true but then as you said, those came from Arab countries which were harbouring Jews before the advent of the Juden Staat. You see, you are now trying to confuse readers by using the terms ' Jew' and 'Semite' interchangeably. An Israelite Jew is a Semite, but a Semite is not necessarily a Jew.


You do realize that the Jews of Iraq and Iran were real Judeans that were carried captive by Nabukhadnassar of the Neo-Babylonian dynasty right? This has been recorded in Babylonian history, well their offspring still exists to this day, in other words no, I'm not confusing the reader between Jew and Semite, when I say Jew I mean Jew, that's besides the fact that all Jews around the world carry Jewish traditions, that in my opinion is good enough proof that they have Jewish ancestry.

In conclusion, 80% of Jews are Ashkenazim and have 10% Middle-Eastern blood. This 10% is not specifically identified as being Jewish or linked in any way to the ancient Israelites. The other 20% of Jews are Sephardim many of which come from Arab countries. Again that does not mean they are ethnically Jewish. Remember that I am constantly referring to Dodecad which says that they have good portions of West Asian and South West Asian blood.


If you're referring to Dodecad, then perhaps you should check your figures right before you post what you posted, if we go by West Asian/Southwest Asian DNA, the Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews both carry 45% to 50% Middle Eastern ancestry, not 10% as you claim.

I'm sorry but this Arab propaganda is not gonna work, all the scientific and logical facts go against what you preach, the European Jews have a large portion of Middle Eastern ancestry and have actual Jewish traditions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2011 at 18:05
This wasn't Arabic propaganda, I'm just a flexible thinker. Well you supplied so many facts that I must admit you are right, Jews are linked to the ancient Israelites. I still find it strange that with such a high percentage of West and South West Asian genes that these Ashkenazim don't look so different from Europeans nor do they look Middle-Eastern. Is it that European genes are more dominant over the latter genes?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2011 at 20:21
Originally posted by Baal Melqart

This wasn't Arabic propaganda, I'm just a flexible thinker. Well you supplied so many facts that I must admit you are right, Jews are linked to the ancient Israelites. I still find it strange that with such a high percentage of West and South West Asian genes that these Ashkenazim don't look so different from Europeans nor do they look Middle-Eastern. Is it that European genes are more dominant over the latter genes?


European Jews don't fully look North European actually, you can often distinguish between a North  European and a Jew, they have a European element of course since they're about 15% to 20% North European and 30% to 35% South European (South European values are also significant in North Middle Eastern populations), so of course they will have some European influence, but I mean even within these European Jews it's very obvious that many of them look nothing like your average white North European.





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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2011 at 21:31
Not always the case, just look at people like Nathalie Portman. I would say she looks exactly like the average American, although she is Israeli. But in most cases I agree that there is a slight difference.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2011 at 22:51
Hello, guys.  I have really enjoyed the dialogue here.  As we say where I'm from, I don't have a dog in this fight, the whole Jew vs. Arab thing.  Glad to see people engaging in a civil and informative debate while exchanging information... I certainly learned a few things.

Speaking as an average American, I would say Natalie Portman looks like a usual Jewish, Italian, or French - American girl.  Other than that, I'd say she looks really hot, but that's all subjective.

I also pass for an average white American, but check out my ancestry and DNA results.  Copied this over from a post I made on the East Asia forum, on the origins of Japanese.



I am posting this here because I think it is relevant to discussion on this topic.  My goal isn't to prove or disprove anything related to true origins of Japanese, and I will identify several flaws in the fundamentals that would rule this info out as hard evidence of one origin vs. another.  However, I think the results are interesting in the context of discussion of Japanese origins on this thread.

I am of Japanese and mixed European maternal ancestry, born in the USA.  My maternal grandmother is from Osaka.  My maternal grandfather, from what I can tell through traditional genealogy, is primarily of north European ancestry, with most ancestors arriving from Germany, Prussia, Norway, and England in the 1800's.  My mtDNA is Haplogroup D, which is common among multiple east Asian nationalities.  I do not have a D sub-group identified at this time.

I am of mixed European paternal ancestry, with a few traditional genealogical references to what may have been full or mixed Cherokee lineage.  I have no hard evidence (DNA, pictures, etc.) for Native American ancestry.  My Y-DNA is Haplogroup G and arrived in North America in the 1600's from England.  It is in minority there among R1a,R1b,etc. and exactly how it arrived in England is unknown.  G is more common among populations in the Mediterranean and Caucasus regions, and also exists in some fairly large numbers in Central Asia among the Magyars (likely ancestors of Huns) and other groups like Uighurs.  It also exists in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and to a lesser degree India.  All of this is background on my paternal lineage, not relevant to origins of Japanese, but relevant to the autosomal DNA analysis results below, which should be based on both paternal and maternal genetic matches.

The provider for the autosomal DNA results below is a private company DNA Tribes.  I have some skepticism about the accuracy of their methods.  Their autosomal matching algorithms and database are proprietary.  The science of autosomal matching for deep ancestry is criticized as inaccurate.  However, I can say that I have a completely anglo-American name, and answered no questionnaire to indicate I had any Asian heritage, so all Asian matches they have provided were not biased by outside information.

The aspect of these results that surprised me the most were the number and strength of Indian and Australian Aboriginal matches that I had.  I fully expected to have many European matches, as well as a number of east and central Asian matches.  The other thing that surprised me was that despite Japanese being my single most identifiable ethnicity at 25%, there were very few hits on Japanese groups, and those hits were weak, none in the top 100.  This may be due to a simple lack of comprehensive Japanese reference samples in the DNA Tribes database.

See the list below.  The label is obviously the nationality or ethnicity being compared to, the (0.nn) is the percentage of match compared to the entire reference population for that group, and the nnn.nn is a multiplier representing the number of times more likely I am to be that nationality, compared to a reference population for the entire world population.  I have included only my top 100 matches.

1 Salar (Qinghai, China) (0.62) 370.84
2 Kirgiz (Xinjiang, Chinese Turkestan) (0.3) 208.96
3 Oman (0.39) 206.58
4 Indian (Singapore) (0.51) 197.29
5 Turkey (0.28) 190.69
6 Evenki (Inner Mongolia, China) (0.34) 183.25
7 Bonan (Gansu, China) (0.4) 175.48
8 Indian (United Arab Emirates) (0.45) 174.53
9 Lazio, Italy (0.2) 162.10
10 Kamma Chaudhary (Andhra Pradesh, India) (0.43) 153.21
11 Uzbek (Xinjiang, Chinese Turkestan) (0.37) 143.12
12 Israel (0.22) 142.61
13 Tomsk, Russia (0.26) 135.26
14 South Asian (United Kingdom) (0.33) 132.52
15 European-Aboriginal (mixed) (South Australia) (0.31) 125.98
16 Costa Rica (0.23) 122.53
17 Spain (0.14) 121.39
18 Italy (0.2) 112.89
19 East Indian (Canada) (0.25) 111.88
20 Han (Xian, Shaanxi, China) (0.16) 110.41
21 Han (Henan, China) (0.15) 107.49
22 Han (Qinghai, China) (0.19) 104.64
23 Indian (Dubai, UAE) (0.4) 102.81
24 Mestizo (Argentina) (0.16) 100.55
25 European-Aboriginal (mixed) (Riverine Region, Australia) (0.23) 99.30
26 Southeast Asian (New Zealand) (0.36) 97.12
27 Kuwait (0.11) 94.29
28 Puerto Rican (Springfield, Massachusetts, U.S.A.) (0.17) 92.06
29 Greece (0.14) 91.84
30 Turkey (0.15) 90.14
31 European-Aboriginal (mixed) (Western Australia) (0.25) 89.98
32 Sergipe, Brazil (0.14) 88.96
33 Calabria, Italy (0.16) 87.31
34 European-Aboriginal (mixed) (Queensland, Australia) (0.32) 86.45
35 Italy (0.11) 83.20
36 Kurdish (Northern Iraq) (0.15) 82.77
37 Tu (Qinghai China) (0.4) 81.87
38 European-Aboriginal (mixed) (Northeast Australia) (0.55) 80.73
39 Istanbul, Turkey (0.16) 80.43
40 Oman (0.28) 79.74
41 Caucasian (Tasmania, Australia) (0.12) 78.48
42 Schleswig-Holstein, Germany (0.08) 78.30
43 Beijing, China (0.13) 78.10
44 Pakistan (0.29) 74.03
45 Spain (0.08) 71.68
46 Caucasian (New South Wales, Australia) (0.12) 70.32
47 Turkey (0.16) 70.07
48 European-Aboriginal (mixed) (New South Wales, Australia) (0.16) 69.92
49 Hungary (0.11) 69.78
50 Han (Shaanxi, China) (0.15) 69.04
51 Flemish (Belgium) (0.09) 68.93
52 Arab (Israel) (0.12) 66.91
53 Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany (0.09) 65.91
54 Afghanistan (0.25) 65.74
55 Basque (Basque Country, Spain) (0.08) 65.44
56 Turkey (0.15) 64.96
57 European-Aboriginal (mixed) (Northern Territory, Australia) (0.37) 64.70
58 Caucasian (Capital Territory, Australia) (0.11) 64.66
59 Northwest Spain (0.09) 64.56
60 Bedouin (Negev, Israel) (0.18) 64.23
61 Northern Greece (0.11) 63.90
62 Flemish (0.1) 63.87
63 Hungary (0.11) 63.75
64 Genoa, Italy (0.19) 62.66
65 Dongxiang (Qinghai, China) (0.26) 62.61
66 Central and Southern Iraq (0.14) 62.29
67 Aboriginal (Tiwi Islands, Australia) (0.21) 61.84
68 Xibe (Xinjiang, Chinese Turkestan) (0.15) 60.99
69 Tu (Northwest China) (0.24) 60.24
70 Nepal (0.25) 60.09
71 Buddhist (Ladakh, India) (0.34) 57.56
72 Austria (0.08) 57.18
73 Brac, Croatia (0.1) 57.07
74 Csango (Romania) (0.06) 57.04
75 Turkey (0.13) 56.67
76 Gujarat, India (0.31) 56.49
77 Bogota, Colombia (0.17) 56.28
78 Greece (0.1) 56.24
79 Abov-Gemer, Eastern Slovakia (0.06) 55.70
80 Northern Portugal (0.06) 55.67
81 Han (North China) (0.1) 55.14
82 United Kingdom (0.08) 55.11
83 Greece (0.1) 54.83
84 Caucasian (U.S.A.) (0.09) 54.80
85 Toulouse, France (0.07) 54.73
86 Indian (Malaysia) (0.26) 53.97
87 Santa Fe, Argentina (0.15) 53.69
88 United Kingdom (0.1) 52.80
89 Han (Beijing, China) (0.08) 51.45
90 Buenos Aires, Argentina (0.13) 50.94
91 Central Portugal (0.07) 50.50
92 Northern Portugal (0.07) 50.36
93 London, England (0.09) 50.32
94 Greece (0.14) 49.41
95 Mainland Croatia (0.09) 49.41
96 Serbia (0.08) 49.41
97 Northern Pakistan (0.22) 49.32
98 Iban (Sarawak, Malaysia) (0.07) 48.66
99 Belem, Brazil (0.14) 48.62
100 Mendoza, Argentina (0.14) 47.97


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2011 at 03:29
Originally posted by Baal Melqart

Not always the case, just look at people like Nathalie Portman. I would say she looks exactly like the average American, although she is Israeli. But in most cases I agree that there is a slight difference.


Don't forget that there are also some exceptions within the Middle East that can pass in Europe too, often times the looks alone are not a good indicator, for instance there are some Arabs in the Levant that can look very blond and European, but their genes may say that for most part they're just like any other Middle Easterners.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2011 at 04:53
That's true, seen my share of blond Lebanese people :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2011 at 14:27
Originally posted by Putty19

Also for the record, even the Arabs of the Arabian Peninsula don't come from Arabia originally, since the majority carry haplogroup J1c3d, this lineage is the son of J1c3 which is the son of J1c which is the son of J1*, haplogroup J1 originated between the mountains of the Zagros and Tarsus around Eastern Anatolia (Southeast Turkey), during he Neolithic times herders used to wander in those lands and some of them migrated south toward Arabia, their first major pit-stop was actually the Levant where they possibly fused with some males that carried haplogroup E1b1b1c1 which originated around the Sinai area (E1b1b1 which is the parent of E1b1b1c1 originated in Eastern Africa and some of the offspring migrated to the middle east), this fusion of the J1c3d and the E1b1b1c1 males in the Levant was the creation of the Proto-Semitic language, some of them migrated further south to Arabia (Where the Arabs come from), some of them migrated to Eastern Africa where some of these languages are spoken today in the form of Amharic, Tigrigna, etc, some migrated to Mesopotamia (Akkadians), while the majority stayed in the homeland in the Levant where languages such as Amorite, Aramaic, Hebrew, Phoenician, etc, and this is actually backed up by a real scientific study of the J1 marker:
Congratulations. Aren't you a little bit confused buddy? According to you ancient Jews who belonged to the haplogroups J2 and G2 aren't from Kurdistan and Semitic speaking people who belong to haplogroup J1 are from Kurdistan. The world is upside down!
 
Speakers of the Semitic languages who belong to Hg J1, like Arabs and Assyrians, are from the south, Arabia and Africa.
 
And you mean Kurdistan. Zagros & Eastern Anatolia was Kurdistan, it's still Kurdistan and it will always be Kurdistan!


Edited by MediaWarLord - 03-Apr-2011 at 14:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2011 at 16:04
I must have missed that part. Aren't Arabs originally from the south of the peninsula in what is now Yemen? As I recall, there were three groups of Amorites each travelled to Assyria, Phoenicia and South Arabia respectively.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2011 at 16:10
Originally posted by MediaWarLord

Originally posted by Putty19

Also for the record, even the Arabs of the Arabian Peninsula don't come from Arabia originally, since the majority carry haplogroup J1c3d, this lineage is the son of J1c3 which is the son of J1c which is the son of J1*, haplogroup J1 originated between the mountains of the Zagros and Tarsus around Eastern Anatolia (Southeast Turkey), during he Neolithic times herders used to wander in those lands and some of them migrated south toward Arabia, their first major pit-stop was actually the Levant where they possibly fused with some males that carried haplogroup E1b1b1c1 which originated around the Sinai area (E1b1b1 which is the parent of E1b1b1c1 originated in Eastern Africa and some of the offspring migrated to the middle east), this fusion of the J1c3d and the E1b1b1c1 males in the Levant was the creation of the Proto-Semitic language, some of them migrated further south to Arabia (Where the Arabs come from), some of them migrated to Eastern Africa where some of these languages are spoken today in the form of Amharic, Tigrigna, etc, some migrated to Mesopotamia (Akkadians), while the majority stayed in the homeland in the Levant where languages such as Amorite, Aramaic, Hebrew, Phoenician, etc, and this is actually backed up by a real scientific study of the J1 marker:
Congratulations. Aren't you a little bit confused buddy? According to you ancient Jews who belonged to the haplogroups J2 and G2 aren't from Kurdistan and Semitic speaking people who belong to haplogroup J1 are from Kurdistan. The world is upside down!
 
Speakers of the Semitic languages who belong to Hg J1, like Arabs and Assyrians, are from the south, Arabia and Africa.
 
And you mean Kurdistan. Zagros & Eastern Anatolia was Kurdistan, it's still Kurdistan and it will always be Kurdistan!


No, that's where you're confused, when one talks about haplogroups and super ancient history of human migration there's no such thing as Kurdistan or Kurds, there are human beings that were hunter gatherers or farmers/herders.

The term Kurd is a recent term that has nothing to do with this discussion, in other words no, when J1 and J2 were born, there was no such thing as Kurdistan.

Originally posted by Baal Melqart

I must have missed that part. Aren't Arabs originally from the south of the peninsula in what is now Yemen? As I recall, there were three groups of Amorites each travelled to Assyria, Phoenicia and South Arabia respectively.


Read the last study I posted in regards to to the J1c3d marker (Which is the most dominant haplogroup among Arabs), its ancestor (J1*) originated in Eastern Anatolia, so has J1c, and J1c3, then we see a migration of some of the men who carried J1c3 to the Levant, around there or perhaps a little before arriving there, the J1c3d mutation was born (Around 5000 years ago), and some of these men made their way to Arabia, possibly right after the creation of the Proto-Semitic language in the Levant area.

The proof for this is the diversity of haplogroup J1 is very high and extreme in Eastern Anatolia while it's very low in Arabia, meaning the Arabs in Arabia that carry this lineage are the offspring of a small group, while the groups that live around Anatolia and carry this lineage are the offspring of plenty of different diverse groups which indicates a point of origin.


Edited by Putty19 - 03-Apr-2011 at 16:16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2011 at 16:53
Originally posted by Putty19

Originally posted by MediaWarLord

Congratulations. Aren't you a little bit confused buddy? According to you ancient Jews who belonged to the haplogroups J2 and G2 aren't from Kurdistan and Semitic speaking people who belong to haplogroup J1 are from Kurdistan. The world is upside down!
 
Speakers of the Semitic languages who belong to Hg J1, like Arabs and Assyrians, are from the south, Arabia and Africa.
 
And you mean Kurdistan. Zagros & Eastern Anatolia was Kurdistan, it's still Kurdistan and it will always be Kurdistan!


No, that's where you're confused, when one talks about haplogroups and super ancient history of human migration there's no such thing as Kurdistan or Kurds, there are human beings that were hunter gatherers or farmers/herders.

The term Kurd is a recent term that has nothing to do with this discussion, in other words no, when J1 and J2 were born, there was no such thing as Kurdistan.
 
Now, you're on a denying mode.
 
The area that we're speaking about IS Kurdistan nowadays. Isn't it? The Kurds have always inhabited those areas. Kurds didn't occur from out of nowhere. And they never left. Ancient Jews had the same roots as the proto-Kurds. After thousands of years proto-Kurds became Iranic people and Jews Semitic.
 
The difference between Jews and Arabs / Assyrians is that Jews are from the Mesopotamia that mixed with the Semites.
Semitic Assyrians / Arabs came to the Mesopotamia and mixed with local population.


Edited by MediaWarLord - 03-Apr-2011 at 17:45
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Apr-2011 at 17:09
The only indigenous people in that area (Kurdistan) nowadays are Kurds!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 02:00
If that makes you sleep nice and tight at night then be my guest LOL

I already said that I won't discuss complicated intellectual topics like this with you because you're not at that level, adios.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 08:54
Whatever. But after all you do agree that the ancient Jews are from the Northern Mesopotamia and "Eastern Anatolia" right?
The overwhelmed majority (95+ %) of that area is and was always Kurdish. But hey that's just a footnote. LOL


Edited by MediaWarLord - 04-Apr-2011 at 09:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 10:38
Ancient Jews were Kurds lol! kurds are not ancient nation they were mix of persians, arabs and armenians

Originally posted by MediaWarLord

And you mean Kurdistan. Zagros & Eastern Anatolia was Kurdistan, it's still Kurdistan and it will always be Kurdistan!
dream on boy, dream on... there is no kurdistan in world map there is Türkiye
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 15:56
Originally posted by MediaWarLord

Whatever. But after all you do agree that the ancient Jews are from the Northern Mesopotamia and "Eastern Anatolia" right?
The overwhelmed majority (95+ %) of that area is and was always Kurdish. But hey that's just a footnote. LOL


Yea, a footnote of how you have no idea of what you're talking about, the Jews are Kurds because they have Mesopotamian/Anatolian roots? This is funny jokes LOLLOLLOL


Edited by Putty19 - 04-Apr-2011 at 15:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 17:35
Originally posted by Putty19

Originally posted by MediaWarLord

Whatever. But after all you do agree that the ancient Jews are from the Northern Mesopotamia and "Eastern Anatolia" right?
The overwhelmed majority (95+ %) of that area is and was always Kurdish. But hey that's just a footnote. LOL


Yea, a footnote of how you have no idea of what you're talking about, the Jews are Kurds because they have Mesopotamian/Anatolian roots? This is funny jokes LOLLOLLOL
I've the same sense of humor as the Jews, because Jews are saying the same thing.
 
Now I do understand why Jews and Kurds found each other...  Big smile
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Baal Melqart View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 18:47
Originally posted by Rûm

Ancient Jews were Kurds lol! kurds are not ancient nation they were mix of persians, arabs and armenians

Originally posted by MediaWarLord

And you mean Kurdistan. Zagros & Eastern Anatolia was Kurdistan, it's still Kurdistan and it will always be Kurdistan!
dream on boy, dream on... there is no kurdistan in world map there is Türkiye


Kurds are an Iranic people, they are not a mix of Arabs, Armenians and Persians. Kurds are a distinct group of people that have existed at least since late antiquity if not before. Strabo mentions them and refers to them as Karduchians living in Pinaka, modern Finiki. Reference: http://www.jstor.org/pss/25209787

@Putty, it interests me how you seem to understand the history of these genes so well. Any link you might have that goes through the basics?
Timidi mater non flet
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red clay View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 19:24
Don't want to slow down the give and take here, it's been healthy to a point.  It's starting to get a little "testy".  Let's not mess up a good thread.Wink
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 20:01
I wish we had the knowledge and wisdom of the ancient Jews. Axxx Felek.
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