Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Turks in the balkans???

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Online
Posts: 14847
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turks in the balkans???
    Posted: 13-Aug-2011 at 08:34
Read this about the moon:(Very scientific facts we have there!)
http://www.archive.org/stream/TheLunarContextOfTheHekatFractions/Abstract5#page/n3/mode/2up
here your bird(Turkey?) people came from in ancient times,at least part of them!Big smile

Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4735
  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2011 at 23:36
Originally posted by medenaywe

Bulgar comes from Vulgar...social class in Byzantine Empire.This one started with "beta".Than language of vulgars was recreated."Beta" was used for "B=Buki".So part of population of Balkans still use this name.
Bulgars.This name means "uneducated","simple","raya"..ordinary people that served their masters,
Romans!Their masters,called themselves Romeians or Romei...Just search further and we would be maybe relatives!?!
Smile

I had never heard anything like this. "Bulgar" came with the Old Bulgars, who came from Volga Bulgaria, here on the map:
File:Map of Old Great Bulgaria.svg
Supposedly this word came from the Mongolic "bulgarac", meaning "to split off", hence "the separated tribe" - because one tribe with Kubrat as a leader left and went West, eventually crossing the Danube in 7th century AD.
The word has nothing to do with "vulgar"; btw, "vulgaris" in Latin means "common", not with a negative connotation.
Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4735
  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2011 at 23:48
Originally posted by OSMANLI2011

I wrote wrongly.. i ment instead Macedonia, former republic of yugoslavia..
now after reading the article you sent, that you mean afterall are not turkish, epirus are linked with the albanian and teh greeks.

One of our elders say that we our ancestors are so called " pomak" turks, but where did they came from, why did they came in the balkans?
surely we speak turkish at home but we have a lot of common words used in the slavic language, and  no one can explain it can be.


AFAIK the "pomaks" are the forcefully converted to Islam Balkan people. They are not Turks by ethnicity, by genetics; they accepted Islam and Turkish as language to make their lives better in the Ottoman Empire. There are many Pomaks in Bulgaria.
So, the Pomaks didn't come to the Balkans, there were already here, the Turks came and conquered the Balkans and whoever they converted became a Pomak. I suppose the Pomaks living now in Bulgaria are converted Bulgarians, those living in Macedonia are converted Macedonians, those living in Greece are converted Greeks, etc. This is a genetic research on Greek Pomaks:

"...HbO-Arab mutation originated in the Pomak
population of Greek Thrace
HbO-Arab emerged about 2,000 years on a rare
haplotype, characteristic of the Greek Pomaks. Its
frequency increased as a consequence of high
genetic drift within this population, and it was dispersed
throughout the Mediterranean basin and
Middle East with minor variations of its haplotypic
pattern.
haematologica 2005; 90:255-257
(http://www.haematologica.org/journal/2005/2/255.html)..."http://www.haematologica-thj.org
/cgi/reprint/90/2/255.pdf

From which what I gather /if I understood it right, that is/  is that they are Greeks with a little bit of Arab mixture, due to mixed marriages, I suppose.

Back to Top
OSMANLI2011 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Feb-2011
Location: Danmark
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8
  Quote OSMANLI2011 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2011 at 05:00
OLLIOS:
Im very aware of the karamanogulu dynasty and have written about the whole phase of karamanid empire.
It is my first thought that we possibly are derived from there but a lot of data has been lost about the migration from anatolia to the balkans regarding the karamanids, if you possibly can find some books regarding karamanids i would apreciate.
When speaking migration to macedonia/ bulgaria it is hard to tell, because there have been turkic migrations on several centeruries, first the huns, Avars, karamanids, then the kumans and last the ottomans.
Just remember that anatolia was vast land without population in the heart of anatolia, the migration to anatolia prehappend when the collaps of Chengiz khans klans collaps, people were frightened about the caos the Chengiz khan made in central asia so people from Turkistan, Khazak, nowadays Iran migrated to turkey.
So how many decentens from those dynasties are left? almost none, by asimillation and nationalism may people forget there true identity.
Nobody asks to them selfs" what a hack does turks do in the balkans when its slavic dominated area" well thats the answer" total migration mixed with asimillation" but theres no investagators to take this big question up because it can raise other questions like" before creation og SFR" social federation yugoslavia" there livede 2 million turks only in macedonia, most of them was forced to migrate back to turkey, if they had stayed in macedonia, macedonia had ben a turkish republic, same with bulgaria, greece but not only balkans, there was turks in early german states, look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MKWom0ujLc
quarter of the population of the german states were turks of origin, thats means just of few decade it had been af turkish states

Nadi
Back to Top
medenaywe View Drop Down
AE Moderator
AE Moderator
Avatar
Master of Meanings

Joined: 06-Nov-2010
Location: /
Online Status: Online
Posts: 14847
  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2011 at 15:02
There were "people exchange"projects under covered of Western world&Russia those days!Mostly after Balkans wars and WW2.Lot of humans sufferings and war disasters.In Balkans wars relatives died cause of "wrong written" front line,fought one another.Balkan have always been place with invented virtual version of false history.Unhappy

Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4735
  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2011 at 15:20
Originally posted by OSMANLI2011

OLLIOS:
Im very aware of the karamanogulu dynasty and have written about the whole phase of karamanid empire.
It is my first thought that we possibly are derived from there but a lot of data has been lost about the migration from anatolia to the balkans regarding the karamanids, if you possibly can find some books regarding karamanids i would apreciate.
When speaking migration to macedonia/ bulgaria it is hard to tell, because there have been turkic migrations on several centeruries, first the huns, Avars, karamanids, then the kumans and last the ottomans.
Just remember that anatolia was vast land without population in the heart of anatolia, the migration to anatolia prehappend when the collaps of Chengiz khans klans collaps, people were frightened about the caos the Chengiz khan made in central asia so people from Turkistan, Khazak, nowadays Iran migrated to turkey.
So how many decentens from those dynasties are left? almost none, by asimillation and nationalism may people forget there true identity.
Nobody asks to them selfs" what a hack does turks do in the balkans when its slavic dominated area" well thats the answer" total migration mixed with asimillation" but theres no investagators to take this big question up because it can raise other questions like" before creation og SFR" social federation yugoslavia" there livede 2 million turks only in macedonia, most of them was forced to migrate back to turkey, if they had stayed in macedonia, macedonia had ben a turkish republic, same with bulgaria, greece but not only balkans, there was turks in early german states, look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MKWom0ujLc
quarter of the population of the german states were turks of origin, thats means just of few decade it had been af turkish states


The  Avars weren't Turkic, but either Mongoloid, either Caucasian, or mixed. As for the Huns, apart of them being Central-Asiatic, I'm not sure what they were; supposedly their language was Turkic, but I'm still to be convinced in that; the Old Bulgars were Central-Asiatic too, but they weren't Turkic. Cumans weren't Turkic either, they were Caucasians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuman_people
I'm not aware of any Turkic migrations to the Balkans prior to the Ottoman conquest. As for a quarter of the population in the German states being Turkic in origin, can you give me some sources on that, without counting the Huns?
Back to Top
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2011 at 15:21
Originally posted by OSMANLI2011

Hi
me my self are from the former republic of macedonia, and my elders, im tolded that our ancestors are turkic, and it always has been me a big question which part of the worldmap did the turkic tribes came to the balkans?



I am not sure about your ancestry but most likely it is mixed like everyone in the Balkans. I know the Bulgars were originally Turkic but over time they mixed with the Slavic majority and other pre-existing groups. I would say that the majority of people with Turkic ancestry probably came with the Ottoman Turks. The Ottoman's occupied that region for a long time. I would venture to say that your ancestors are more than just the Turkic tribes from Asia.

As far as I know the original Turkic tribes came from north of China near Mongolia and they were related ethnically to the Mongolians. It seems logical that as they migrated west the intermixed with other groups such as the Slavs, Persians and others. I saw many faces in Turkiye when I was there.

I think if you yahoo or Google it you will find a lot of information about the Turkic tribes.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Back to Top
Don Quixote View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Dec-2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4735
  Quote Don Quixote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2011 at 19:20
Originally posted by eaglecap

Originally posted by OSMANLI2011

Hi
me my self are from the former republic of macedonia, and my elders, im tolded that our ancestors are turkic, and it always has been me a big question which part of the worldmap did the turkic tribes came to the balkans?

I am not sure about your ancestry but most likely it is mixed like everyone in the Balkans. I know the Bulgars were originally Turkic but over time they mixed with the Slavic majority and other pre-existing groups. I would say that the majority of people with Turkic ancestry probably came with the Ottoman Turks. The Ottoman's occupied that region for a long time. I would venture to say that your ancestors are more than just the Turkic tribes from Asia.
As far as I know the original Turkic tribes came from north of China near Mongolia and they were related ethnically to the Mongolians. It seems logical that as they migrated west the intermixed with other groups such as the Slavs, Persians and others. I saw many faces in Turkiye when I was there.
I think if you yahoo or Google it you will find a lot of information about the Turkic tribes.

The theory that the Bulgars were Turks is questioned now by DNA results:
"...Bulgarian genes are very close to those of people living in the Pamir region, the scientific expedition Tangra concludes. The explorers collected genetic samples from residents of Afghanistan and Tajikistan, and the DNA analysis had proved Bulgarians came from Pamir not from western Siberia as previously believed. Slavyan Stoylov, member of the expedition, says the DNA proof refutes three main theories, generations of Bulgarians had studied in school – that Bulgarian people are genetically very diverse; that they came from western Siberia, and that they are very close to Slaves. The expert-explorers further point out the theory of the Huns' origin of Bulgarians from Siberia and Altai had been adopted by official history only on the basis of some hypothesis, but add the DNA analysis from Pamir is in an initial stage and there is a need for more and larger-scale studies. [...]..."http://thearchaeologicalbox.com/en/news/dna-analysis-reveals-pamir-origin-bulgarians

Not enough is left from the proto-Bulgarian language to classify it, and it used to be accepted that was a Turkic language because of 3 /to my best knowledge/ Turkic words that were used in in Bulgarian epigraphy, but now this is questioned too. I personally grew up with the hypothesis that the Bulgars were Turkic people, but based on what I see now I don't dare use a more specific  definition than "Central Asians". There are studies on the net about that, but lamentably they are in Bulgarian, so it won't do any good to post links to them.
Back to Top
OSMANLI2011 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard
Avatar

Joined: 06-Feb-2011
Location: Danmark
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8
  Quote OSMANLI2011 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Mar-2014 at 03:41
Hi,

Do you know if there any non-turkish sources about karamanid empire?

I will really apreciate.

I will make an investigation about this and will write a book about this on Danish, I will thank you iin my book if you can provide me some information?
Nadi
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.