Turks in the balkans???

Originally posted by medenaywe Bulgar comes from Vulgar...social class in Byzantine Empire.This one started with "beta".Than language of vulgars was recreated."Beta" was used for "B=Buki".So part of population of Balkans still use this name. Bulgars.This name means "uneducated","simple","raya"..ordinary people that served their masters, Romans!Their masters,called themselves Romeians or Romei...Just search further and we would be maybe relatives!?!

I had never heard anything like this. "Bulgar" came with the Old Bulgars, who came from Volga Bulgaria, here on the map:
Supposedly this word came from the Mongolic "bulgarac", meaning "to split off", hence "the separated tribe" - because one tribe with Kubrat as a leader left and went West, eventually crossing the Danube in 7th century AD.
The word has nothing to do with "vulgar"; btw, "vulgaris" in Latin means "common", not with a negative connotation.

OLLIOS:
Im very aware of the karamanogulu dynasty and have written about the whole phase of karamanid empire.
It is my first thought that we possibly are derived from there but a lot of data has been lost about the migration from anatolia to the balkans regarding the karamanids, if you possibly can find some books regarding karamanids i would apreciate.
When speaking migration to macedonia/ bulgaria it is hard to tell, because there have been turkic migrations on several centeruries, first the huns, Avars, karamanids, then the kumans and last the ottomans.
Just remember that anatolia was vast land without population in the heart of anatolia, the migration to anatolia prehappend when the collaps of Chengiz khans klans collaps, people were frightened about the caos the Chengiz khan made in central asia so people from Turkistan, Khazak, nowadays Iran migrated to turkey.
So how many decentens from those dynasties are left? almost none, by asimillation and nationalism may people forget there true identity.
Nobody asks to them selfs" what a hack does turks do in the balkans when its slavic dominated area" well thats the answer" total migration mixed with asimillation" but theres no investagators to take this big question up because it can raise other questions like" before creation og SFR" social federation yugoslavia" there livede 2 million turks only in macedonia, most of them was forced to migrate back to turkey, if they had stayed in macedonia, macedonia had ben a turkish republic, same with bulgaria, greece but not only balkans, there was turks in early german states, look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MKWom0ujLc
quarter of the population of the german states were turks of origin, thats means just of few decade it had been af turkish states

Originally posted by OSMANLI2011 OLLIOS: Im very aware of the karamanogulu dynasty and have written about the whole phase of karamanid empire. It is my first thought that we possibly are derived from there but a lot of data has been lost about the migration from anatolia to the balkans regarding the karamanids, if you possibly can find some books regarding karamanids i would apreciate. When speaking migration to macedonia/ bulgaria it is hard to tell, because there have been turkic migrations on several centeruries, first the huns, Avars, karamanids, then the kumans and last the ottomans. Just remember that anatolia was vast land without population in the heart of anatolia, the migration to anatolia prehappend when the collaps of Chengiz khans klans collaps, people were frightened about the caos the Chengiz khan made in central asia so people from Turkistan, Khazak, nowadays Iran migrated to turkey. So how many decentens from those dynasties are left? almost none, by asimillation and nationalism may people forget there true identity. Nobody asks to them selfs" what a hack does turks do in the balkans when its slavic dominated area" well thats the answer" total migration mixed with asimillation" but theres no investagators to take this big question up because it can raise other questions like" before creation og SFR" social federation yugoslavia" there livede 2 million turks only in macedonia, most of them was forced to migrate back to turkey, if they had stayed in macedonia, macedonia had ben a turkish republic, same with bulgaria, greece but not only balkans, there was turks in early german states, look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MKWom0ujLc quarter of the population of the german states were turks of origin, thats means just of few decade it had been af turkish states

The  Avars weren't Turkic, but either Mongoloid, either Caucasian, or mixed. As for the Huns, apart of them being Central-Asiatic, I'm not sure what they were; supposedly their language was Turkic, but I'm still to be convinced in that; the Old Bulgars were Central-Asiatic too, but they weren't Turkic. Cumans weren't Turkic either, they were Caucasians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuman_people
I'm not aware of any Turkic migrations to the Balkans prior to the Ottoman conquest. As for a quarter of the population in the German states being Turkic in origin, can you give me some sources on that, without counting the Huns?

Originally posted by eaglecap Originally posted by OSMANLI2011 Hi me my self are from the former republic of macedonia, and my elders, im tolded that our ancestors are turkic, and it always has been me a big question which part of the worldmap did the turkic tribes came to the balkans? I am not sure about your ancestry but most likely it is mixed like everyone in the Balkans. I know the Bulgars were originally Turkic but over time they mixed with the Slavic majority and other pre-existing groups. I would say that the majority of people with Turkic ancestry probably came with the Ottoman Turks. The Ottoman's occupied that region for a long time. I would venture to say that your ancestors are more than just the Turkic tribes from Asia. As far as I know the original Turkic tribes came from north of China near Mongolia and they were related ethnically to the Mongolians. It seems logical that as they migrated west the intermixed with other groups such as the Slavs, Persians and others. I saw many faces in Turkiye when I was there. I think if you yahoo or Google it you will find a lot of information about the Turkic tribes.

The theory that the Bulgars were Turks is questioned now by DNA results:
"...Bulgarian genes are very close to those of people living in the Pamir region, the scientific expedition Tangra concludes. The explorers collected genetic samples from residents of Afghanistan and Tajikistan, and the DNA analysis had proved Bulgarians came from Pamir not from western Siberia as previously believed. Slavyan Stoylov, member of the expedition, says the DNA proof refutes three main theories, generations of Bulgarians had studied in school – that Bulgarian people are genetically very diverse; that they came from western Siberia, and that they are very close to Slaves. The expert-explorers further point out the theory of the Huns' origin of Bulgarians from Siberia and Altai had been adopted by official history only on the basis of some hypothesis, but add the DNA analysis from Pamir is in an initial stage and there is a need for more and larger-scale studies. [...]..."http://thearchaeologicalbox.com/en/news/dna-analysis-reveals-pamir-origin-bulgarians

Not enough is left from the proto-Bulgarian language to classify it, and it used to be accepted that was a Turkic language because of 3 /to my best knowledge/ Turkic words that were used in in Bulgarian epigraphy, but now this is questioned too. I personally grew up with the hypothesis that the Bulgars were Turkic people, but based on what I see now I don't dare use a more specific  definition than "Central Asians". There are studies on the net about that, but lamentably they are in Bulgarian, so it won't do any good to post links to them.